[Arny Krueger]

"Powell" wrote in message

"Eeyore" wrote

If your budget is above $500 or so you might consider
a power line conditioning instead of perusing cables
as a source of increasing the overall resolution of your
system.

What do you mean by conditioning ?

Graham

There are four different classes of power conditioners:

1. General filtering
2. Specialized filtering: analog, digital, power amp
3. Specialized filtering with isolated transformers
4. Power regeneration

All completely necessary with good audio gear and normal wall socket power.

Sections:

I. What IS a Power Line Conditioner?
II. Why do I NEED/WANT one?
III. HTML Links
IV. Specific Products & Technology
V. Cheap Tweaks for the Dangerously Inclined
VI. Closing Comments

I. What IS a Power Line Conditioner?
=====================================
Before there was such a market for high end tweaks and
buzz words in high end audio/video companies like APCC & Tripplite
among many others were already making power conditioners for the
computer and electronics industry.

They are used only under exceptional conditions.

These devices are
still made and they are used to provide voltage
regulation for devices like copiers.

Go check the copiers in the building you work. Just about all of them will
be plugged into the wall without the intervention of a power conditioner.

They used
transformers with multiple taps, and as the input voltage
surges or sags the relays or transistors in the power
conditioner would switch among the different transformer taps.

Or, they used ferroresonant transformers.

I thought Tice or Audio
Power made a similar device, but I seem to be mistaken. Two good source of
non- esoteric power line conditioners are
www.furmasound.com and www.equitech.com. Pretty good
looking stuff if you have common surge/sagging problems.

For about $30 you can buy a line voltage monitor called a "Kill-a-watt". If
your power is sagging, it will tell you. All audio gear will function
nominally when the normal 120 volt power is in the range of 105 to 135
volts.

A line conditioner may have some features to do the
following:

1. Filter the AC signal so you get closer to
an ideal 60 Hz signal.

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio gear can tolerate
very dirty AC power without audible problems.

2. Provide surge protection

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio gear can tolerate a
wide range of surges.

3. Provide Under / Over voltage protection
(turns off)

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio gear can tolerate a
wide range of voltage sources.

4. Provide Under / Over voltage regulation
(keeps the output voltage constant)

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio gear can tolerate a
wide range of voltages. Audio gear that has internal circuits that are
critical of voltage levels have internal regulators.

5. Provide power outage protection
(like an Uninterruptable Power Supply)

Generally unecessary. In most places in the US, Canada, and Europe, the
power has very few outages. Power outages are more frustration than danger.

6. Provide a lower apparent impedance to the source
(like PS Audio, Elgar, etc.)

Generally unecessary for the reasons stated above. BTW, some of the tools
that are often unecesarily used by audiophiles to clean up power, end up
raising the source impedance of the power line. It's eaiser and more
sensible to disconnect them, than to use more expensive means to create any
difficulties that they may create.

Different products work differently, and will have
different feature mixes. The heavier, the more you are
paying for, so beleive it or not the cost per pound is a
good indicator of how much is going into the product,

Generally people don't have any problems with AC power. If its not broken,
don't fix it. If it is broken, then of course fix it. However the best means
for getting good AC power are pretty prosaic and don't involve high end
audio products. Get a professional electrician on the job, not some
saleshack on a web site or in an audio store.

Alas not all filtration is the same. Products which
claim to filter RFI/EMI only start to work at around 100
kHz or higher, which is far above human audibility. The
theoretically ideal power line filter would filter out
all signals below and above 60 Hz.

One of the best ways to filter HF noise out of AC power involves your
standard power transformer. They are intentially made with poor HF response.
They don't make good output transformers for tubed amps, but they do help
clean up the power. The next way involves the filter capacitors. One irony
is that most equipment that has built-in power line filtering beyond this,
does so because it is trying to keep from radiation HF noise, not keep it
out of the equipment.

II. Why do I NEED/WANT one?
============================
II.a: NEEDS
Unless you suffer from chronic over/under voltages at
your house then chances are you don't really need a power
conditioner, the system will work reliably without it.

Amen, brother.

You may very well find that surge protection is important
to you. Check out the separate "Nigel's Surge Supression Info Sheet".

Every once in a while I see a computer that probably got knocked out by a
power surge. This usuall kills the PC's power supply. I see about one a
year. A surge protector might easily cost more than a new power supply.
Multiply that by all the PC's with unecessary external surge protectors that
could have simply shrugged off the surges they saw, or simply never got hit
by any.


II.b: WANTS
Audio/videophiles WANT power conditioners because they
feel it will improve the quality of their listening or viewing
experience.

Feel would be a good word. A lot of audiophilia is about feeling as opposed
to learning or thinking.

How much of an audible or visible difference a power line
conditioner will make in your world depends on the
following:
1. The quality of your incoming AC power.
2. The quality of your components power supplies.
3. The resolution of your system
(Fix your room acoustics first, then
worry about power line issues)

The point about acoustics is highly relevant. However the idea that there is
audio gear that has that much higher resolution than ordinary gear that it
is that much more sensitive to power is ********. More likely, the high end
gear is improperly designed and lacks the normal levels of rejection of
noise sources that are seen in mid-priced and professional audio gear.

7. Your gullibility

Good point.

An example of exceptional power supply design is found in
much of Krell and Mark Levinson equipment some of which use fully
regulated, fully balanced power supplies.

Actually, just about every piece of audio gear of even modest cost has
fully-regulated, fully-balanced power supplies, for the parts of the
equipment that would benefit from it. The idea that you've got to spend
megabucks to get equipment with a good power supply is total bullocks.

This is a rare thing,

That would be a false claim, providing we can believe that the author is
poorly-informed enough to actually believe what he just wrote.

but any potential benefit from a power conditioner
may be a moot point with this equipment.

Power conditioners are generally a moot point.

Most amplifiers
use unregulated, but highly filtered power supplies,
relying on the incoming AC voltage remaining constant,
and large capacitors to reduce any noise on the line.

Frankly, I would not call the main power supply in a power amp "highly
filtered". Genearlly there is only one stage of capacitive filtering, no
inductors, and no pi-network filtering. Furthermore, load that power amp up
and you'll often find volts of ripple on the main DC power lines in the
power amp. It's the output stage that rejects the ripple and makes the
output of the power amp clean.


There is one exception to this. Power conditioners that
provide balanced outputs may reduce ground loop related
hums, as well as provide a good lowering of the overall
noise floor.

Only an issue with poorly-designed equipment and systems.

snip manufacturer-by-manufacturer sales pitches

[Powell]

"Arny Krueger" wrote

If your budget is above $500 or so you might consider
a power line conditioning instead of perusing cables
as a source of increasing the overall resolution of your
system.

What do you mean by conditioning ?

Graham

There are four different classes of power conditioners:

1. General filtering
2. Specialized filtering: analog, digital, power amp
3. Specialized filtering with isolated transformers
4. Power regeneration

Snip Quacking

Zzzz...

[Arny Krueger]

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Powell" wrote in message

"Eeyore" wrote
ons.

These devices are
still made and they are used to provide voltage
regulation for devices like copiers.

Go check the copiers in the building you work. Just
about all of them will be plugged into the wall without
the intervention of a power conditioner.

They used
transformers with multiple taps, and as the input
voltage surges or sags the relays or transistors in the
power conditioner would switch among the different
transformer taps.

Or, they used ferroresonant transformers.

The Sola ferroresonant transformer was usually mounted in
the basement so you didn't realize there even was one. I
have salvaged them from torn down gas stations and fast
food joints. They work great, mounted in the basement.

Mine sit in that big "Onan" box that frustrates Powell so much. I only trot
it out for things like specification tests on power amps.

For about $30 you can buy a line voltage monitor called
a "Kill-a-watt". If your power is sagging, it will tell
you. All audio gear will function nominally when the
normal 120 volt power is in the range of 105 to 135
volts.

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio
gear can tolerate a wide range of surges.

What you mean is they SHOULD BE able to. Many linear
supplies can't.

Got any test results to share? I have a 25 amp variac and a number of
voltage indicaters including an old RCA two Kill-a-watts.

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio
gear can tolerate a wide range of voltage sources.

See above.

Been there, done that.

4. Provide Under / Over voltage regulation
(keeps the output voltage constant)

Generally unecessary. The power supplies in good audio
gear can tolerate a wide range of voltages. Audio gear
that has internal circuits that are critical of voltage
levels have internal regulators.

5. Provide power outage protection
(like an Uninterruptable Power Supply)

Generally unecessary. In most places in the US, Canada,
and Europe, the power has very few outages. Power
outages are more frustration than danger.

We were out for three days two years ago. But under the
circumstances we didn't give a **** about the stereo.

And if you do, you need something that runs off of gas, gasolene, or diesel.


Switchmode supplies should be able to take surges-as
opposed to spikes-very well. Peecee supplies are built to
a purple panda's pussy hair on price. Then the customer
goes ape**** and demands a new computer, and if it's
within warranty the manufacturer gives them one. False
economy.

Well, they can recycle refurb computers well enough to still have a
business.

Power conditioners are generally a moot point.

Frankly, I would not call the main power supply in a
power amp "highly filtered". Genearlly there is only
one stage of capacitive filtering, no inductors, and no
pi-network filtering. Furthermore, load that power amp
up and you'll often find volts of ripple on the main DC
power lines in the power amp. It's the output stage
that rejects the ripple and makes the output of the
power amp clean.

That's one reason the PA amps you love to extol do not do
that well in high end service. But not the primary one.

I haven't seen a high end or other audiophile amp that was that much
different.

Most traditional solid state power amps have no voltage
regulation and in fact would benefit from regulating at
least up to the driver stage.

Nahh.

OTOH regulating the output
stage linearly does make for a lot more weight and heat,
as big heatsinks are necessary.

There aren't a lot of power amps that have regulated power supplies. The
Dyna 120 was one of them, and there was a Quad. AFAIK both are long out of
production.

Tube amps have much
better short-term energy control at the final stage, or
at least can have, without highly inefficient linear
shunt or pass regulation.

Nahh. Most tube amps have like a 50 uF PS cap at the PS output, which can
store a lot of voltage for its size, because of the 5x higher voltage. So
energy goes up with the square of the voltage and we have 25 times the
energy for a given sized cap.

But, 25*50 is just 1,250, and there are hardly any SS power amps worth
mentioning that have as little as twice that much capacitance in their PSs.
The QSC USA 400 that so many like to **** on has 6,600 uF. So, we're talking
between 2 and 5 times more energy storage, even in pro audio SS amps.

A good tube amp with a remote,
choke filtered supply keeping all AC except the signal
off the chassis is a very impressive thing. It does weigh
a lot (as though I care.)

Tubed amps are a different case because they have less feedback, and
therefore less power supply rejection.

There is one exception to this. Power conditioners that
provide balanced outputs may reduce ground loop related
hums, as well as provide a good lowering of the overall
noise floor.

Only an issue with poorly-designed equipment and systems.

Balanced power is used in most serious recording
facilities today.

There's that catch word, serious.

In fact, the NEC actually had to be
amended to permit 110V balanced power in commercial
faclilties. A simpler way to achieve this, is simply to
use the 220V balanced power already in most American
houses. It appears to be of great benefit, and requires
only that you buy only equipment suited to 220 V
operation. The safety issues with equipment designed for
unbalanced power are those also found when it is used
with 110V balanced power. The power switch and circuit
breaker should break both hot lines, which is usually
easy to do: alternatively wire the box to be on at all
times and use an external switch.

Balanced power is a band-aid. Some people need band-aids though.

[Powell]

"Arny Krueger" wrote

Balanced power is used in most serious recording
facilities today.

There's that catch word, serious.

Hehehe... And what do you use in your boasted
about recording studio?


There's that catch word, serious.

In fact, the NEC actually had to be
amended to permit 110V balanced power in commercial
faclilties. A simpler way to achieve this, is simply to
use the 220V balanced power already in most American
houses. It appears to be of great benefit, and requires
only that you buy only equipment suited to 220 V
operation. The safety issues with equipment designed for
unbalanced power are those also found when it is used
with 110V balanced power. The power switch and circuit
breaker should break both hot lines, which is usually
easy to do: alternatively wire the box to be on at all
times and use an external switch.

Balanced power is a band-aid. Some people need band-aids though.
And others, such as you, need a bigger shovel.
Zzzzz....

[Arny Krueger]

"Powell" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote

Balanced power is used in most serious recording
facilities today.

There's that catch word, serious.

Hehehe... And what do you use in your boasted
about recording studio?

You're dreaming, Powell. I don't have a recording studio, never did. Note
that I primarily talk about recording live performances.

It is true that I've posted the widest dynamic range recoding that is
publicly available at my www.pcabx.com web site, but that was recorded under
more like labratory conditions, not in a studio. I powered that recording
with a standard 120 v power line. Heck, there was even a PC on that circuit
and a CRT in the room!


Balanced power is a band-aid. Some people need band-aids
though.

And others, such as you, need a bigger shovel.

Not really Powell. The shovel I've got is more to send you into yet another
meltdown:

Zzzzz....

[Sander deWaal]

"Bret Ludwig" said:


The Quads were brilliantly designed but poorly implemented. Modified
upgraded ones sound extremely good and a homebrew variant would be my
choice to build a homemade solid state amp. The current dumping circuit
worked really well. When combined with the Mc Power Goose circuit
(patent expired) and a butch power supply they should be a very fine
amp indeed.


http://quad405.com/

A certain Bernd Ludwig (popular name, that) modified the 405, and
successfully, it seems.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Arny Krueger]

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Bret Ludwig" said:


The Quads were brilliantly designed but poorly
implemented. Modified upgraded ones sound extremely good
and a homebrew variant would be my choice to build a
homemade solid state amp. The current dumping circuit
worked really well. When combined with the Mc Power
Goose circuit (patent expired) and a butch power supply
they should be a very fine amp indeed.


http://quad405.com/

A certain Bernd Ludwig (popular name, that) modified the
405, and successfully, it seems.

Unfortunately, like most modifiers, he does not provide comprehensive test
reports on the *before* and especially the *after" amplifier, other than the
SOA. BTW, the SOA enhancment seems impressive.