"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

So it's just a coincidence that Dubya, the simple-minded,
Bible-thumping, former drug addict and current tool of the greedy
robber barons who are bleeding this country dry, is the only
President
in memory who declared war on the basis of "good vs. evil", and who
also declared a "Crusade" to slay the evildoers?

Seems that my memory is better than yours.

Aren't you going to explain why or how?


I thought it 'self evident'

I know what self-evident means, but I don't know what 'self-evident'
means. Perhaps you can explain that distinction to begin with.

The cold war and WWII
were matters of good vs evil.
It's sad that I would have to explain this to anyone.

You might explain how the Soviet Union viewed the USA. I'm sure your
take on it is ..... unanticipated, let's say.


I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,
and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..




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I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system. I thought that was
us up until the civil war. Death? Did capitalism cure death? Starvation? People
don't starve in other non-communist countries?


and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian working class
under communism? Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom and
standard of living when the Czars ruled Russia?

"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...

I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system. I thought that
was
us up until the civil war. Death? Did capitalism cure death? Starvation?
People
don't starve in other non-communist countries?


Come on, we are talking about all the atrocities under Lenin and Stalin.
People were treated as slaves of the state. Forced labor
Forced relocations, breakup of families, forced starvations.

If you wish to make a moral equivalency between the US, and
Russia (under Communism), I can't cure the blind.



and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian working
class
under communism? Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom
and
standard of living when the Czars ruled Russia?

The issue at hand is good vs evil and the Cold War.
But, for wahtever it is worth, the Tsars sucked too.

Standard of living isn't the issue, either.
Good vs Evil.
I know just thinking about it might cause discomfort
in some people.




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I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system. I thought that
was
us up until the civil war. Death? Did capitalism cure death? Starvation?
People
don't starve in other non-communist countries?


Come on, we are talking about all the atrocities under Lenin and Stalin.
People were treated as slaves of the state. Forced labor
Forced relocations, breakup of families, forced starvations.

If you wish to make a moral equivalency between the US, and
Russia (under Communism), I can't cure the blind.

Where did I make any such moral equivalency? We certainly were guilty of having
slavery. I don't think the Soviet Union was guilty of such. More people were
starving in Russia before communism than after. I am not defending communism
but I am not going to attack it with propaganda. I am not going to deny facts
that don't jive with my political ideals.



and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian working
class
under communism? Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom
and
standard of living when the Czars ruled Russia?

The issue at hand is good vs evil and the Cold War.
But, for wahtever it is worth, the Tsars sucked too.

You cannot simply trust a country out of the context of it's own history. The
Russian people did not turn communist becuase they decided it was time to be
evil.


Standard of living isn't the issue, either.
Good vs Evil.
I know just thinking about it might cause discomfort
in some people.

It does cause me tremendous discomfort when people decide that their political
or economic ideologies boil down to good vs. evil rather than a difference of
opinion. Communism vs. capitalism was not a struggle of good versus evil. It
was a struggle between economic systems. It seems that capitalism works better
in many ways and seems to be prefered by most people. That would include
myself. But it isn't about good vs. evil. It is about finding the economic
system that best serves the needs and desires of the people.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message


I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system.

Shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how
forgetful.

It was a nifty 2-step. First you declare vast numbers of citizens to be
criminals, and then you put all these millions of *criminals* into prison
camps where they are worked to death.

I thought that was us up until the civil war.

That was then, and this was how things were in USSR through most of the 20th
century.

Death? Did capitalism cure death?

Stalin ordered the murder of about 29 million of my ancestors during the
first half of the 20th century. I believe his justification went something
like "To make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs". Again, this shows how
incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how forgetful. Do
Mensa IQ tests cover things like this? I suspect not!

Starvation? People don't starve in other non-communist countries?

People starve in houses that are full of food, occasional starvation is not
the problem. No capitalism can't do away with all of the effects of
naturally-caused famines, but in the past century capitalist countries have
pretty much managed to avoid the kinds of government-policy-induced famines
seen in North Korea, USSR, China, etc.

and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian working
class under communism?

In accordance with communist state policy in the USSR, increases in the
standard of living vastly underperformed such mediocre or worse increases in
worker productivity that somehow took place despite state mismanagement of
the economy. The issue was called "Guns versus butter"

Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom and standard of
living when the Czars ruled Russia?

From the time of the organization of the USA onward, improvements in the
standard of living of virtually all social classes in the US vastly outpaced
increases in the standard of living in the USSR. Communism, if anything
increased this disparity.

I think this anecdote is relevant. I associated with a Cameroonian who was
working on his PhD in Math for a number of years. He ended up living in one
of the nastier public housing projects in downtown Detroit, which was so bad
that it was subsequently dynamited. He received his undergraduate degree
from the University of Moscow, as I recall. He said that his Detroit housing
situation was vastly superior to that *enjoyed* by middling-high communist
party members in Moscow. His apartment in Detroit did have its nasty
aspects, but it was relatively spacious for two people, well-heated in the
winter, served by a working modern elevator, and had other refinements that
were according to him, fairly rare in Moscow, even among their equivalent of
the middle class.

I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system.

Shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how
forgetful.

It was a nifty 2-step. First you declare vast numbers of citizens to be
criminals, and then you put all these millions of *criminals* into prison
camps where they are worked to death.


Thanks for showing you don't know the difference between slavery and political
oppression.



I thought that was us up until the civil war.

That was then, and this was how things were in USSR through most of the 20th
century.


Really. Tell us about the slaves in the USSR Arny. What was the average price
of a slave in the twentieth centry USSR?


Death? Did capitalism cure death?

Stalin ordered the murder of about 29 million of my ancestors during the
first half of the 20th century. I believe his justification went something
like "To make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs". Again, this shows how
incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how forgetful. Do
Mensa IQ tests cover things like this? I suspect not!


Hmm. This sort of bevavior was unique to the Soviet Union and communism? Thanks
for proving you didn't understand the point. The ability to understand and
solve problems is covered on the Mensa test. The test you are afraid to take.


Starvation? People don't starve in other non-communist countries?

People starve in houses that are full of food, occasional starvation is not
the problem. No capitalism can't do away with all of the effects of
naturally-caused famines, but in the past century capitalist countries have
pretty much managed to avoid the kinds of government-policy-induced famines
seen in North Korea, USSR, China, etc.


Again you missed my point. here is a simple question Arny. Did more people
starve in Russia before or after communism?


and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian working
class under communism?

In accordance with communist state policy in the USSR, increases in the
standard of living vastly underperformed such mediocre or worse increases in
worker productivity that somehow took place despite state mismanagement of
the economy. The issue was called "Guns versus butter"


Maybe you could repost this claim using a sentence that actually makes sense.
In the mean time your challenge is to diagram your own sentence.


Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom and standard of
living when the Czars ruled Russia?

From the time of the organization of the USA onward, improvements in the
standard of living of virtually all social classes in the US vastly outpaced
increases in the standard of living in the USSR. Communism, if anything
increased this disparity.


Thanks for once again missing the point. You might want to go back and review
specifically what I did and di not compare. Here is a hint, capitalism wasn't
included in my comparisons.



I think this anecdote is relevant. I associated with a Cameroonian who was
working on his PhD in Math for a number of years. He ended up living in one
of the nastier public housing projects in downtown Detroit, which was so bad
that it was subsequently dynamited. He received his undergraduate degree
from the University of Moscow, as I recall. He said that his Detroit housing
situation was vastly superior to that *enjoyed* by middling-high communist
party members in Moscow. His apartment in Detroit did have its nasty
aspects, but it was relatively spacious for two people, well-heated in the
winter, served by a working modern elevator, and had other refinements that
were according to him, fairly rare in Moscow, even among their equivalent of
the middle class.










His was one opinion. I am sure that most people prefer our system to that of
the Soviet Union.Certainly some don't. I certainly do. Maybe you should get
back to us when you can figure out what is being said in the thread. Here is
yet another hint, nowhere in any of my posts did I say communism was better
than capitalism. That should be a good enough anyone including an idiot such as
yourself. How about the Mensa test Arny? Still chicken?

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system.

Shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how
forgetful.

It was a nifty 2-step. First you declare vast numbers of citizens to
be criminals, and then you put all these millions of *criminals*
into prison camps where they are worked to death.

Thanks for showing you don't know the difference between slavery and
political oppression.

Tell that to every historian and writer who called this particular
implementation of political oppression "slavery".

I thought that was us up until the civil war.

That was then, and this was how things were in USSR through most of
the 20th century.

Really. Tell us about the slaves in the USSR Arny. What was the
average price of a slave in the twentieth centry USSR?

There is no such place as twentieth centry USSR.

Please explain the meaning of "price" in a Communist society.

Death? Did capitalism cure death?

Stalin ordered the murder of about 29 million of my ancestors during
the first half of the 20th century. I believe his justification went
something like "To make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs".
Again, this shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet
wheel. Or how forgetful. Do Mensa IQ tests cover things like this? I
suspect not!

Hmm. This sort of bevavior was unique to the Soviet Union and
communism?

There is no bevavior like this in the Soviet Union.

Thanks for proving you didn't understand the point.

Thanks for discrediting yourself, sockpuppet wheel.

The
ability to understand and solve problems is covered on the Mensa
test. The test you are afraid to take.

Never said that, straw man argument noted.

Starvation? People don't starve in other non-communist countries?

People starve in houses that are full of food, occasional starvation
is not the problem. No capitalism can't do away with all of the
effects of naturally-caused famines, but in the past century
capitalist countries have pretty much managed to avoid the kinds of
government-policy-induced famines seen in North Korea, USSR, China,
etc.


Again you missed my point. here is a simple question Arny. Did more
people starve in Russia before or after communism?

Never said that, straw man argument noted.

and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian
working class under communism?

In accordance with communist state policy in the USSR, increases in
the standard of living vastly underperformed such mediocre or worse
increases in worker productivity that somehow took place despite
state mismanagement of the economy. The issue was called "Guns
versus butter"

Maybe you could repost this claim using a sentence that actually
makes sense. In the mean time your challenge is to diagram your own
sentence.

Unlike you sockpuppet wheel, I don't have any mean time. However, it is
clear that you revel in your mean time.

Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom and
standard of
living when the Czars ruled Russia?

From the time of the organization of the USA onward, improvements in
the standard of living of virtually all social classes in the US
vastly outpaced increases in the standard of living in the USSR.
Communism, if anything increased this disparity.

Thanks for once again missing the point. You might want to go back
and review specifically what I did and di not compare. Here is a
hint, capitalism wasn't included in my comparisons.

I'm quite sure that you di not compare anything, sockpuppet wheel.

You obviously can't remember what you wrote, even when it is presented in
the previous paragraph. You explicitly mentioned the American level of
freedom and standard of living.

Oh, I get it sockpuppet, you don't think that we practice capitalism in the
US.

How novel!

How wrong!

I think this anecdote is relevant. I associated with a Cameroonian
who was working on his PhD in Math for a number of years. He ended
up living in one of the nastier public housing projects in downtown
Detroit, which was so bad that it was subsequently dynamited. He
received his undergraduate degree from the University of Moscow, as
I recall. He said that his Detroit housing situation was vastly
superior to that *enjoyed* by middling-high communist party members
in Moscow. His apartment in Detroit did have its nasty aspects, but
it was relatively spacious for two people, well-heated in the
winter, served by a working modern elevator, and had other
refinements that were according to him, fairly rare in Moscow, even
among their equivalent of the middle class.

His was one opinion.

It was based on personal experience. Tell us about your personal experiences
with living in the USSR, sockpuppet wheel. Given how little you're willing
to admit about your pathetic life here in the US, that will be quite
entertaining!

I am sure that most people prefer our system to
that of the Soviet Union.Certainly some don't. I certainly do. Maybe
you should get back to us when you can figure out what is being said
in the thread.

It's true that "I think I'm without fault and my opinions are
unquestionable" is being said between the lines by you in this thread,
sockpuppet wheel. What's new?

Here is yet another hint, nowhere in any of my posts
did I say communism was better than capitalism.

I still haven't said that, so take this straw man argument of yours and put
it with the rest of them, sockpuppet wheel.

That should be a good
enough anyone including an idiot such as yourself. How about the
Mensa test Arny? Still chicken?

Never was chicken about Mensa tests. Unlike you, I've always had more
productive things to do. It's quite clear that your allegedly high Mensa IQ
test score is the one accomplishment in your miserable life of failure that
you're willing to discuss.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:04:57 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


There is no bevavior like this in the Soviet Union.

There is no such thing as "bevavior" in the Soviet Union (or anywhere
*else* for that matter).

I suppose that Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev had
thought that the slavery, death, starvation, and torture
inherent in their rule were just wonderfully good things,

Slavery? I don't recall slavery being a part of the system.

Shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet wheel. Or how
forgetful.

It was a nifty 2-step. First you declare vast numbers of citizens to
be criminals, and then you put all these millions of *criminals*
into prison camps where they are worked to death.

Thanks for showing you don't know the difference between slavery and
political oppression.

Tell that to every historian and writer who called this particular
implementation of political oppression "slavery".


Cite them, prove they said this and give me their e mail address and I will.


I thought that was us up until the civil war.

That was then, and this was how things were in USSR through most of
the 20th century.

Really. Tell us about the slaves in the USSR Arny. What was the
average price of a slave in the twentieth centry USSR?

There is no such place as twentieth centry USSR.


Failure to answer the question noted. Given the fact that you have claimed that
nitpicking over typos is an admission of defeat I accept your admission of
defeat on this matter.



Please explain the meaning of "price" in a Communist society.


Thanks for admitting you don't understand simple words dip****. Or are you
simply so ignorant that you believe there was no monetary system in the USSR
and people didn't pay for goods with money?


Death? Did capitalism cure death?

Stalin ordered the murder of about 29 million of my ancestors during
the first half of the 20th century. I believe his justification went
something like "To make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs".
Again, this shows how incredibly poorly-educated you are sockpuppet
wheel. Or how forgetful. Do Mensa IQ tests cover things like this? I
suspect not!

Hmm. This sort of bevavior was unique to the Soviet Union and
communism?

There is no bevavior like this in the Soviet Union.


Thanks for admitting defeat again.


Thanks for proving you didn't understand the point.

Thanks for discrediting yourself, sockpuppet wheel.


Projecting again I see.



The
ability to understand and solve problems is covered on the Mensa
test. The test you are afraid to take.

Never said that, straw man argument noted.

You have admitted it by your standards of admission. Of course you can always
prove me wrong and take the test and publish the results. Yoy can prove you
aren't a coward with a substantial bet on top of it. You are chicken.



Starvation? People don't starve in other non-communist countries?

People starve in houses that are full of food, occasional starvation
is not the problem. No capitalism can't do away with all of the
effects of naturally-caused famines, but in the past century
capitalist countries have pretty much managed to avoid the kinds of
government-policy-induced famines seen in North Korea, USSR, China,
etc.


Again you missed my point. here is a simple question Arny. Did more
people starve in Russia before or after communism?

Never said that, straw man argument noted.

No, I said it dip****. Your inability to understand what I said is noted. Look
where I said *my point* and see if you can figure out what the **** is going on
in this thread.



and that the freedom and high standard of living
here in the US were just about as bad an evil as anyone
could imagine..

Do you think the standard of living went down for the Russian
working class under communism?

In accordance with communist state policy in the USSR, increases in
the standard of living vastly underperformed such mediocre or worse
increases in worker productivity that somehow took place despite
state mismanagement of the economy. The issue was called "Guns
versus butter"

Maybe you could repost this claim using a sentence that actually
makes sense. In the mean time your challenge is to diagram your own
sentence.

Unlike you sockpuppet wheel, I don't have any mean time. However, it is
clear that you revel in your mean time.

Guess you can't repost your car wreck of a sentence in proper English. Figures.



Were the peasants enjoying an American level of freedom and
standard of
living when the Czars ruled Russia?

From the time of the organization of the USA onward, improvements in
the standard of living of virtually all social classes in the US
vastly outpaced increases in the standard of living in the USSR.
Communism, if anything increased this disparity.

Thanks for once again missing the point. You might want to go back
and review specifically what I did and di not compare. Here is a
hint, capitalism wasn't included in my comparisons.

I'm quite sure that you di not compare anything, sockpuppet wheel.


Thanks for yet another admission of defeat.


You obviously can't remember what you wrote, even when it is presented in
the previous paragraph. You explicitly mentioned the American level of
freedom and standard of living.

Thanks for showing just what an idiot you are Arny. I guess yo can't remember
what I wrote or the context in which I wrote it. I was clearly pointing out
that when looking at communist Russia one has to consider where they came from.
the comparison was between communist Russia and russia under the rule of the
Czars. Duh.



Oh, I get it sockpuppet, you don't think that we practice capitalism in the
US.

Obviously you don't get it. No wonder you avoid the Mensa test like the plague.


How novel!

How wrong!

Indeed your misrepresentations of my positions are, as usual, quite wrong.



I think this anecdote is relevant. I associated with a Cameroonian
who was working on his PhD in Math for a number of years. He ended
up living in one of the nastier public housing projects in downtown
Detroit, which was so bad that it was subsequently dynamited. He
received his undergraduate degree from the University of Moscow, as
I recall. He said that his Detroit housing situation was vastly
superior to that *enjoyed* by middling-high communist party members
in Moscow. His apartment in Detroit did have its nasty aspects, but
it was relatively spacious for two people, well-heated in the
winter, served by a working modern elevator, and had other
refinements that were according to him, fairly rare in Moscow, even
among their equivalent of the middle class.

His was one opinion.


It was based on personal experience.

I never said it wasn't dip****.

Tell us about your personal experiences
with living in the USSR, sockpuppet wheel.

I never lived there. I did however spend a lot of time in communist
Czechoslavakia. I spent a lot of time talking to the people who lived there all
their lives. You have talke d to one guy eho lived through it and I have talke
dot many. That is perhaps why I know opinions vary and you don't.


Given how little you're willing
to admit about your pathetic life here in the US, that will be quite
entertaining!


You are easily entertained by your sociopathic fantasies about the lives of
others. That is probably due to your bitterness over having lived such an
unextraordinary life of underachievement and failure to excel at anything. You
live what little life you have on the internet. Sad.



I am sure that most people prefer our system to
that of the Soviet Union.Certainly some don't. I certainly do. Maybe
you should get back to us when you can figure out what is being said
in the thread.

It's true that "I think I'm without fault and my opinions are
unquestionable" is being said between the lines by you in this thread,
sockpuppet wheel. What's new?

I told you to get back to us when you can figure out what is being said in the
thread. Your failure to follow instructions is noted. Of course how can I
expect you to follow instructions when it is clear you cannot even understand
them.


Here is yet another hint, nowhere in any of my posts
did I say communism was better than capitalism.




I still haven't said that, so take this straw man argument of yours and put
it with the rest of them, sockpuppet wheel.


So who are you agruing with when you make points about the superiority of
capitalism over communism? Are you hearing voices as you read my posts?


That should be a good
enough anyone including an idiot such as yourself. How about the
Mensa test Arny? Still chicken?

Never was chicken about Mensa tests.

Sure you were and you still are. Put up or stut up. What say we put a bet on
the results to make it more interesting. Say $500.00? Chicken?


Unlike you, I've always had more
productive things to do.

Like 90,000 posts on Usenet? LOL

It's quite clear that your allegedly high Mensa IQ
test score is the one accomplishment in your miserable life of failure that
you're willing to discuss.

What score did I allege? You are amazingly stupid. You might want to talk about
your projections of a miserable life of failuere with Dr. Richman. He might be
willing to give you some free counciling. Arny we know what a miserable life of
underachievement you have lived. I'm sorry you feel compelled to make up such
fantasies about me to feel better about yourself.