hey,

i'm in the process of utilizing a corner of my studio room as an
upright bass 'station' equipped with headphone system, sub snake tie
lines, preamps and the like.

i lived in nashville for many years and learned from a few different
sources that many players used the corner of the studio to achieve that
'juke box bass' sound. a few guys insisted on standing in the corner
while i cut their tracks but i don't have any definitive info other
than nashville lore. i just know that when you stand in a corner and
play the bass, it's a beautiful thing....

this was employed for a few sessions where i was a player and the bass
tracks were very good. punchy but not boomy, 3 dimensional and round
from a bass that was a plywood Kay from the 60's.
i used an 87 on the treble 'f' hole and a 460 on the fingerboard. i
used a pendulum mdp1a on both channels into a pendulum 6386 varible Mu
compressor. some tracks were recorded in the corner, as the player
wanted and some were not. the verdict was undeniable. same player, same
mics, same signal path.....different results. notes were clearer, more
definite with less head bumping. hands down, my guys are going in the
corner if i have anything to say about it.

i'd like to make my station the place where the bass player 'goes'.

my questions a

has anyone else out there heard of this technique? i learned of this
from a couple different sources but they were all anecdotal. the bass
'station' in RCA nashville studio B was in the corner of the cut room.
guys like bob moore played those classic tracks in that spot.

in the event that it was you, would you use reflective or hard surfaces
on the walls? would you think that sonex or absorbtive surfaces would
have advantages/disadvantages? wood, 703, homasote, concrete?

the bass trap idea may cause some to wince, but i've seen it in action
and i'd like your(pl) observations before i make commitments.

thanks for your kind consideration,

gary0

In article . com,
wrote:

has anyone else out there heard of this technique? i learned of this
from a couple different sources but they were all anecdotal. the bass
'station' in RCA nashville studio B was in the corner of the cut room.
guys like bob moore played those classic tracks in that spot.

What, going into the corner to play bass? Sure. You're using the
reflections from the wall to your benefit when you do this. Same
effect as when you put a speaker in a corner and get exaggerated low end.

in the event that it was you, would you use reflective or hard surfaces
on the walls? would you think that sonex or absorbtive surfaces would
have advantages/disadvantages? wood, 703, homasote, concrete?

It won't make any difference on the low end, it will only make a difference
on the high end. If it's brighter stuff, you'll hear more articulation on
the notes. If it's deader stuff, you will hear less.

the bass trap idea may cause some to wince, but i've seen it in action
and i'd like your(pl) observations before i make commitments.

What bass trap idea? I have not seen any mention of bass traps in your
post other than in the subject line.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

has anyone else out there heard of this technique? i learned of this
from a couple different sources but they were all anecdotal. the bass
'station' in RCA nashville studio B was in the corner of the cut room.
guys like bob moore played those classic tracks in that spot.

What, going into the corner to play bass? Sure. You're using the
reflections from the wall to your benefit when you do this. Same
effect as when you put a speaker in a corner and get exaggerated low end.

in the event that it was you, would you use reflective or hard surfaces
on the walls? would you think that sonex or absorbtive surfaces would
have advantages/disadvantages? wood, 703, homasote, concrete?

It won't make any difference on the low end, it will only make a difference
on the high end. If it's brighter stuff, you'll hear more articulation on
the notes. If it's deader stuff, you will hear less.

the bass trap idea may cause some to wince, but i've seen it in action
and i'd like your(pl) observations before i make commitments.

What bass trap idea? I have not seen any mention of bass traps in your
post other than in the subject line.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

has anyone else out there heard of this technique? i learned of this
from a couple different sources but they were all anecdotal. the bass
'station' in RCA nashville studio B was in the corner of the cut room.
guys like bob moore played those classic tracks in that spot.

What, going into the corner to play bass? Sure. You're using the
reflections from the wall to your benefit when you do this. Same
effect as when you put a speaker in a corner and get exaggerated low end.

in the event that it was you, would you use reflective or hard surfaces
on the walls? would you think that sonex or absorbtive surfaces would
have advantages/disadvantages? wood, 703, homasote, concrete?


the bass trap idea may cause some to wince, but i've seen it in action
and i'd like your(pl) observations before i make commitments.

What bass trap idea? I have not seen any mention of bass traps in your
post other than in the subject line.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

thanks, Scott,

but aren't you 'trapping' the bass frequencies in a corner by standing
in it playing an upright bass?

i think you gave my your observation he

It won't make any difference on the low end, it will only make a difference
on the high end. If it's brighter stuff, you'll hear more articulation on
the notes. If it's deader stuff, you will hear less.

that spells out that i'd probably do well to make the corner insert
from hardwood, maybe tongue and groove flooring. high end on a
recording is easier to 'have' than to 'get'.

thanks again,

gary0

wrote:

but aren't you 'trapping' the bass frequencies in a corner by standing
in it playing an upright bass?

Usually when people talk about bass traps they mean bass absorbers, used
for damping out LF room modes (standing wave resonances)

that spells out that i'd probably do well to make the corner insert
from hardwood, maybe tongue and groove flooring. high end on a
recording is easier to 'have' than to 'get'.

That's not a bad idea and the player will probably like it. What you may
also need to do it put a bass absorber in the *opposite* corner of the
room so it doesn't go boom all at two or three frequencies.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

anahata wrote:
wrote:

but aren't you 'trapping' the bass frequencies in a corner by standing
in it playing an upright bass?

Usually when people talk about bass traps they mean bass absorbers, used
for damping out LF room modes (standing wave resonances)

that spells out that i'd probably do well to make the corner insert
from hardwood, maybe tongue and groove flooring. high end on a
recording is easier to 'have' than to 'get'.

That's not a bad idea and the player will probably like it. What you may
also need to do it put a bass absorber in the *opposite* corner of the
room so it doesn't go boom all at two or three frequencies.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827



thanks for the input.

my cut room is asymmetrical so i may have lucked out with that. i'll
have to wait and see if it's an
issue with the room when i get done with the install.

i just bought a Hammond-stein and a 122 Leslie. it's a 1949 "C" console
and all BV guts, completely restored. my first foray into recording my
jazzoid buddies in an organ setting. now, maybe your advice about the
traps would come into play on those sessions.

once again, thanks,

gary0

Gary,

Anahata and Scott gave you good advice. Putting a bass player in the corner
will exaggerate the bass just like putting a speaker in a corner. But you
also need bass traps elsewhere in the room to minimize the room resonance
and ringing, and to flatten the response the microphone picks up.

--Ethan

Ethan Winer wrote:
Gary,

Anahata and Scott gave you good advice. Putting a bass player in the corner
will exaggerate the bass just like putting a speaker in a corner. But you
also need bass traps elsewhere in the room to minimize the room resonance
and ringing, and to flatten the response the microphone picks up.

--Ethan

thanks, Ethan,

i WANT this exaggeration. that's precisely why i want to put it there.
the few times i've done it, it worked very well. i was asking about
whether anyone had done this in the real world and had come
to some other unforeseen conclusions.

i'll take this under advisement. i just don't know if an unamplified
acoustic bass by itself is gonna ring out the 19'x23' room yet,
considering that the drums'll be in there, too.

thanks to all for helpin' me out with responses. much appeciated,

gary0

In article . com,
wrote:

but aren't you 'trapping' the bass frequencies in a corner by standing
in it playing an upright bass?

No. Quite the opposite. A "bass trap" is a device that acts to absorb
low frequencies... it acts as if you had removed the wall and allowed the
wave to pass right out. We normally use a bass trap to prevent standing
waves in a room. What you want to do is reflect bass frequencies, to
_create_ standing waves in a room.

i think you gave my your observation he

It won't make any difference on the low end, it will only make a difference
on the high end. If it's brighter stuff, you'll hear more articulation on
the notes. If it's deader stuff, you will hear less.

that spells out that i'd probably do well to make the corner insert
from hardwood, maybe tongue and groove flooring. high end on a
recording is easier to 'have' than to 'get'.

Walk into the corner with a bass and see how it sounds. I used to get great
bass sounds in a place with horrible acoustic tiled walls and linoleum
floors, even.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

but aren't you 'trapping' the bass frequencies in a corner by standing
in it playing an upright bass?

No. Quite the opposite. A "bass trap" is a device that acts to absorb
low frequencies... it acts as if you had removed the wall and allowed the
wave to pass right out. We normally use a bass trap to prevent standing
waves in a room. What you want to do is reflect bass frequencies, to
_create_ standing waves in a room.

i think you gave my your observation he

It won't make any difference on the low end, it will only make a difference
on the high end. If it's brighter stuff, you'll hear more articulation on
the notes. If it's deader stuff, you will hear less.

that spells out that i'd probably do well to make the corner insert
from hardwood, maybe tongue and groove flooring. high end on a
recording is easier to 'have' than to 'get'.

Walk into the corner with a bass and see how it sounds. I used to get great
bass sounds in a place with horrible acoustic tiled walls and linoleum
floors, even.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


thanks again, Scott, i'll do exactly that.....

i think i'm going to go with 5/8" red oak from the home cheapo and
margoleum floor.
then there'll be a headphone amp, XLR tie lines, an ashley SC40 preamp
with an SC50
compressor in the loop for the pickups, and music stand..

i appreciate you straightening me out about that nomenclature,

gary0