My field recording setup consists of a 4 channel hard disk recorder, which
has two mic ins and two line ins. In order to have 4 mic ins, I use what is
known as a "field mixer", a 3 in, two bus, stereo out mixer. This provides a
fifth channel that can be panned between the two mixer channels. Other than
the panned fifth channel, the channels are discrete. In the "production
sound" world, people still mix, mainly dialog, on the fly down to two
channels. However, the music world has mostly graduated to discrete tracks
for all feeds.

What could I use this fifth channel for, or should it be left unused? In the
typical scenario of my work, two channels are used for a single point stereo
mike. The remaining channels are spots, intended to improve definition where
necessitated by the hostile environment of the public places I record. The
musicians, instruments, and their numbers are subject to random encounter,
so I can't put a specific scenario out.

Suggestions?

Leave it unused. Introducing another mic to the mix, will just cause
phasing issues. And it seems like you're trying to isolate ALL your
tracks, and that would be counterintuitive. If you want to use a 5th
mic, I would imploy a 3:1 in placement on the mics on the instrument. I
am assuming here that you plant mics on the instuments or close to the
instruments. As long as you can have the 2 mics set-up in a stationary
place, perhaps a mock "plant" tree or at they are at least 3:1 from
eachother, you're doing what you can to limit the phasing issues.
However, you might be causing phasing issues with the two "non-stereo"
mics to your Stereo mics when you mix them later in the studio. Seems
like you might have to very careful where you use your other mics in
relation to your stereo mics. Close mic'ing helps best, which it sounds
like that is your attack plan anyways. Hope this helps

BTW - we in the production sound world try to isolate as much as
possible by "mixing" more than 3-4 people to 2 tracks by fading up and
down talent mics across the 2 tracks, ultimately keeping 3-4 people
discrete but still only using 2 tracks. Of course this can only be
accomplished on dramatic, scripted pieces. More times than not this is
possible! Sometimes it's not!

Mike Cark

"audiofile" wrote in message
ups.com...
Leave it unused. Introducing another mic to the mix, will just cause
phasing issues. And it seems like you're trying to isolate ALL your
tracks, and that would be counterintuitive.

No, not. I record XY pair in a noisy environment. I try to get the direct
sound of the instruments as much as possible, positioning the stereo mike to
reduce the presence of the inevitable battery powered speaker. This has been
working very well. However, some accenting may be necessary; hence the
additional channels. Since the accents are mixed in 10dB below the main
anyway, would phasing be an issue?

If you want to use a 5th
mic, I would imploy a 3:1 in placement on the mics on the instrument. I
am assuming here that you plant mics on the instuments or close to the
instruments. As long as you can have the 2 mics set-up in a stationary
place, perhaps a mock "plant" tree or at they are at least 3:1 from
eachother, you're doing what you can to limit the phasing issues.
However, you might be causing phasing issues with the two "non-stereo"
mics to your Stereo mics when you mix them later in the studio. Seems
like you might have to very careful where you use your other mics in
relation to your stereo mics. Close mic'ing helps best, which it sounds
like that is your attack plan anyways. Hope this helps

Yes, thanks.

BTW - we in the production sound world try to isolate as much as
possible by "mixing" more than 3-4 people to 2 tracks by fading up and
down talent mics across the 2 tracks, ultimately keeping 3-4 people
discrete but still only using 2 tracks. Of course this can only be
accomplished on dramatic, scripted pieces. More times than not this is
possible! Sometimes it's not!

Yes, I've been reading about this funny gadget you guys use called an
"automatic mixer". Wouldn't work too well for music

Yes, I've been reading about this funny gadget you guys use called an
"automatic mixer". Wouldn't work too well for music


Yuk! Never used one! My "automatic mixer" is my finger and brain! But I
think there might be one out there that is actually good, most are not
that good, and are used in TV Talkshows alot....I think! But NEVER on a
Movie or Dramatic TV set At least not by me!

Peter Larsen

Well, yes, my approach was from my experience mixing mics attached to
peoples bodies and/or a boom mic in the air. So phasing for me, is
apparently of little concern for the recording methods you employ for
music. Depending on distance from each other and the source being
recording, phasing varies, but is always present.....in my field.....at
least to my ears. Others might have different experiences. And yes we
often call it muti-mono, or split-stereo. Stereo micing for dialog is
typical...from what I've been told...in Europe.....but has never been
accepted here in the US. Thanks for the disection response to my
ill-attempt to help! I stand corrected! or shall I say sit

Mike Clark

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
soundhaspriority wrote:

My field recording setup consists of a 4 channel hard disk recorder,
which has two mic ins and two line ins. In order to have 4 mic ins,
I use what is known as a "field mixer", a 3 in, two bus, stereo
out mixer. This provides a fifth channel that can be panned between
the two mixer channels. Other than the panned fifth channel, the
channels are discrete. In the "production sound" world, people
still mix, mainly dialog, on the fly down to two channels. However,
the music world has mostly graduated to discrete tracks for all feeds.

That is in a very different production style.

What could I use this fifth channel for,

If you need three soloists mics, then mix them to a sensible
stereo-image, one full left, one center and one full right and record
them on the other track pair. You will probably want to narrow that
stereo image in the final mix, but leave that choice until later, do not
discard the extra spatial information you get, som day it may come in
handy.

or should it be left unused?

Nah, it will come in handy some day. Do not think "tracks", think that
you have a recorder for two concurrent stereo images that you can
overlay later.

Suggestions?

You have paid for the mixer channel, use it if you need to deploy that
extra mic, but do think in terms of stereo images ... unless of course
you rebel and decide to record old fashioned discrete quad!


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Thanks for the note, Peter. I'm sure it be used at some point.

Bob Morein

audiofile wrote:

Well, yes, my approach was from my experience mixing mics
attached to peoples bodies and/or a boom mic in the air.

In comparison it is likely to require a larger number of tracks. Also
with musical instruments, voices included, you have to have a distance
to the sound producing body that is of the same order of magnitude as
its size, with some sound producing bodies preferably three times their
size, to get a well integrated sound.

So phasing for me, is apparently of little concern for the
recording methods you employ for music.

Combfilter effects and object duplication are most certainly major
concerns that limit what can be done with spot microphones.

Depending on distance from each other and the source being
recording, phasing varies, but is always present.....in my
field.....at least to my ears.

Yes indeed, that is why some people are so fond of using as few mics as
possible, for stereo preferably a single pair.

Others might have different experiences. And yes we
often call it multi-mono, or split-stereo. Stereo micing
for dialog is typical...from what I've been told...in Europe
.....but has never been accepted here in the US.

According to what I have read about radio drama production, I have never
been involved in it, microphones and the distance to them are "worked"
very actively to produce the intended sonic perspective.

Thanks for the disection response to my
ill-attempt to help!

It was a very good attempt, because those concerns also matter, and
there will always be real world situations where a recording ends up in
"the other category", one such example would be storytellers that need a
clip on microphone for live recording.

I stand corrected! or shall I say sit

We have both had an excellent learning experience, thank you!

Mike Clark


/Peter Larsen