I did a quickie recording for a friends band, and ended up with a fairly
good amount of essing from a female singer.

Any tips from the pro-audio crowd on how I might resolve it? I've tried an
EQ as well as a canned "de-esser" with some improvement, but not to my
liking. I figure there will be too much of a compromise on the top end if
I knock it all out... anyway, I'm looking for advice from you guys that deal
with vocals regularly.

Thanks,

Bob

if you're on a DAW i highly recommend manual de-essing. it's a drag,
but well worth it. i happen to be a sibilant female vocalist, and i've
tried several de-essing plug-ins and i get much better results by
riding the faders. you start to get a real knack for it --- for how
much to attenuate without it sounding lispy or otherwise unnatural. and
you start to see "s" "t" and "j" waveforms in your head even when
you're not working. kind of like when you go on a long road trip and
you feel like you're still driving.


Bob Savage wrote:
I did a quickie recording for a friends band, and ended up with a fairly
good amount of essing from a female singer.

Any tips from the pro-audio crowd on how I might resolve it? I've tried an
EQ as well as a canned "de-esser" with some improvement, but not to my
liking. I figure there will be too much of a compromise on the top end if
I knock it all out... anyway, I'm looking for advice from you guys that deal
with vocals regularly.

Thanks,

Bob

"Shiverbones" wrote in message
oups.com...
if you're on a DAW i highly recommend manual de-essing. it's a drag,
but well worth it. i happen to be a sibilant female vocalist, and i've
tried several de-essing plug-ins and i get much better results by
riding the faders. you start to get a real knack for it --- for how
much to attenuate without it sounding lispy or otherwise unnatural. and
you start to see "s" "t" and "j" waveforms in your head even when
you're not working. kind of like when you go on a long road trip and
you feel like you're still driving.

Hi Shiverbones,

Thanks for the advice. I am on a DAW (Samplitude 8.3). I'm unsure of what
you mean by "riding the faders." Are you using volume envelopes or
something to bring down the overall track amplitude during the "S"?

Bob

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

"Bob Savage" wrote in message
news:xaV5g.175099$bm6.112539@fed1read04...
"Shiverbones" wrote in message
oups.com...
if you're on a DAW i highly recommend manual de-essing. it's a drag,
but well worth it. i happen to be a sibilant female vocalist, and i've
tried several de-essing plug-ins and i get much better results by
riding the faders. you start to get a real knack for it --- for how
much to attenuate without it sounding lispy or otherwise unnatural. and
you start to see "s" "t" and "j" waveforms in your head even when
you're not working. kind of like when you go on a long road trip and
you feel like you're still driving.

Hi Shiverbones,

Thanks for the advice. I am on a DAW (Samplitude 8.3). I'm unsure of
what
you mean by "riding the faders." Are you using volume envelopes or
something to bring down the overall track amplitude during the "S"?

Bob

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

I vote for manual de-essing, one ess at a time. I use Audtion. I highlight
an ess event, use parametric EQ set to a Q of about 10, with a boost of
about 10 or 15 db, then sweep the usual suspect frequency range of 2 to 7
kHz or so. At some point the ess will take the enamel off your teeth.
That's the frequency you want to attenuate. Now attenuate about 10 dB or
so. How much good are you doing? How much harm to other stuff? I find the
freq, decide on an amount of attenuation, then raise the Q until I don't
like it and back it down a little. The way I think of it is that I'd like a
little lower freq body in the ess-sound and that nice clean Sssss on top. I
just want to get rid of the icky stuff in the center. I'm always surprised
at how much a splatty ess can be improved, even a distorted ess. Those same
settings on the parametric will work with minor tweaking on all the other
ess events in the song from the same vocalist. It goes fast.

Of course, there are some excellent hardware de-essers out there that work
very well, too. But they aren't free.

Steve King

"Steve King" wrote in message
. ..
I vote for manual de-essing, one ess at a time. I use Audtion. I
highlight
an ess event, use parametric EQ set to a Q of about 10, with a boost of
about 10 or 15 db, then sweep the usual suspect frequency range of 2 to 7
kHz or so. At some point the ess will take the enamel off your teeth.
That's the frequency you want to attenuate. Now attenuate about 10 dB or
so. How much good are you doing? How much harm to other stuff? I find
the
freq, decide on an amount of attenuation, then raise the Q until I don't
like it and back it down a little. The way I think of it is that I'd like
a
little lower freq body in the ess-sound and that nice clean Sssss on top.
I
just want to get rid of the icky stuff in the center. I'm always
surprised
at how much a splatty ess can be improved, even a distorted ess. Those
same
settings on the parametric will work with minor tweaking on all the other
ess events in the song from the same vocalist. It goes fast.

Excellent, thanks Steve!

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

Well, what frequency is the sibilance usually at? And how
much would you suggest attenuating while still keeping
it natural sounding?

Well, what frequency is the sibilance usually at? And how
much would you suggest attenuating while still keeping
it natural sounding?

It depends on the singer. It's generally in the 5k to 6k area, but some
singers will be above or below that range. I use the Waves De-esser
which allows tuning the passband of the sidechain filter while
listening just to the sibillance. You can take as much as 12 to 15 db
off in the passband without it getting dull or unnatural sounding,
although some singers only need a few db of attenuation in their
sibilant range. You can also set up any generic multiband compressor to
do this too.

Scott Fraser

Hi Bob.

I know your post is about de-essing after-the-fact. However, in the
future be sure to choose a mic and a setup that prevents the essing
from being recorded so hotly. You can try using a mic that has less of
a rise around 5kHz. Also, if you make sure that the mic if offset from
the singer's projection, sibilance will be reduced. Try raising the mic
above the singer's mouth and aiming slightly downwards. Experiment and
you are sure to find a suitable placement.

In addition, when singers 'eat' the pop filter or mic you get
exaggerated esses and Ts and Ps. Got a problem with a singer eating the
pop filter? Kindly inform them that the previous singer did the same
thing ... and the singer before him ... and the singer prior to her ...
Ha! They quickly stop.

Hope this helps,
Hassan

wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, what frequency is the sibilance usually at? And how
much would you suggest attenuating while still keeping
it natural sounding?

From 1.5 kHz to 7 kHz give or take depending on the voice. I attenuate as
much as it takes but not too much. I mean, no one can answer your question
so specifically without addressing a specific bit of recorded sound. Every
instance is a little different.

Steve King

"Hassan Davis" wrote in message
ups.com...


In addition, when singers 'eat' the pop filter or mic you get
exaggerated esses and Ts and Ps. Got a problem with a singer eating the
pop filter? Kindly inform them that the previous singer did the same
thing ... and the singer before him ... and the singer prior to her ...
Ha! They quickly stop.


Hehehe. Or just use an old, worn-out stocking.

Predrag

A while back, I picked up an SPL deesser. I've been very happy with it. Very
transparent if used judiciously. I think there may have been a plugin
version of this.


"Bob Savage" wrote in message
news:W0T5g.175083$bm6.69427@fed1read04...
I did a quickie recording for a friends band, and ended up with a fairly
good amount of essing from a female singer.

Any tips from the pro-audio crowd on how I might resolve it? I've tried
an
EQ as well as a canned "de-esser" with some improvement, but not to my
liking. I figure there will be too much of a compromise on the top end
if
I knock it all out... anyway, I'm looking for advice from you guys that
deal
with vocals regularly.

Thanks,

Bob

Animix wrote:
A while back, I picked up an SPL deesser. I've been very happy with it. Very
transparent if used judiciously. I think there may have been a plugin
version of this.

There was indeed. It was included with several Streinberg products and
then sold solo, but is no longer available. I've been looking for a
copy.

This device, and presumably the plug, work by taking some of the
signal, inverting the phase, and then mixing it back in.

On Fri, 5 May 2006 12:51:45 -0400, Haolemon wrote
(in article . com):


Animix wrote:
A while back, I picked up an SPL deesser. I've been very happy with it. Very
transparent if used judiciously. I think there may have been a plugin
version of this.

There was indeed. It was included with several Streinberg products and
then sold solo, but is no longer available. I've been looking for a
copy.

This device, and presumably the plug, work by taking some of the
signal, inverting the phase, and then mixing it back in.


Whereas most deessers work as frequency dependent limiters.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Is the SPL more effective than using the frequency dependent type?