"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...


Have you tried moving them out further from the back wall?

Yes, but (1) I noticed no improvement in sound, and (2) they intrude too
much into the listening room, which is also a "family room".


That surprises me. Small position changes make noticable differnces with
my
CLSs.

From what I understand, the CLS models are far more sensitive to position
changes than the Quest Z's. Back when I was living in Playa Del Rey a few
years ago, two RAO friends (Marc Philips was one of them) confirmed that the
distance from the speakers as identically spaced made a difference -
standing about two feet back in the hallway there really improved the sound.

In my new San Diego house, I have that extra two feet of listening space,
and find that the ideal position for listening to them is right where I have
them.

Do you have any absorbtion or diffusion on the wall behind them?

No. Just wires. :-)

I don't have a "dedicated listening room", or I might experiment with
such
things.

A 1.2 million dollar house and the stereo has to share the room??? Have
you
thought about an addition to the house?

Real estate along prime coastal areas like Del Mar in San Diego is far more
expensive than in at least 95% of the country. For what I paid and what my
house is now worth, I could afford a huge mansion on 10 acres in many parts
of the country, but I prefer being where I am for many reasons, not the
least of which is the top-notch school system from K-12. It's a very nice
two-story 5 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath house with just the right amount of room for
our plans for children and family guests. But I converted a downstairs
bedroom into one law office, and one-third of the three-car garage into a
second law office.

Yes, I've thought about an additional house - e.g., in Lake Tahoe.
Realistically, that's too far away.

But on a more serious note, I have a back yard which in the back third of it
has a slope gradually leading upwards to the houses above (I live on a
slight hill). I'm seriously looking into the legal, geological, and
architectural possibilities of carving out of that hill enough space to
construct a very large studio - which would not just be a "dedicated
listening room" replete with Martin Logan's top-of the line "Statement"
speaker system, and ARC's or VTL's top of the line amps and preamps, etc.,
etc., but also a drop-down-from-the-ceiling screen with a top of the line
projector and line quadrupler, with M/L surround speakers for video, plus a
stage with a concert grand Steinway and a French harpsichord like the
two-keyboard one my neighbors across the street have + a sophisticated
recording/miking system so I can play and record keyboard with a variety of
other musicians making a variety of types of music (and possibly producing
some marketable CDs/DVD-As/SACDs/master tapes. I've already discussed this
with JJ during his visits here (Jim Johnston, who used to post here) and the
possibility of hiring him as a technical consultant, and he's definitely
enthused. When the time comes, I may even hire JA and others the two of
them may recommend.

BTW, I understand you also have Martin Logans and ARC tube amps. Good
taste, matey. :-)

Thank you. It is a nice combo. Ever tried the AtmaSphere amps? I here they
mate
well with the Soundlab full range electrostats. I am leaning towards
Soundlab
as a future upgrade.

I never listened to the Soundlabs outside of a CES and Stereophile show,
which isn't the best venue for them, but I do recall at one time they were
J. Gordon Holt's speakers of choice in his home.

For the time being, I'm not on the market for experimenting with other
components. I'm happy for the time being with what I have, despite a few
compromises. My ultimate dream-system, as described above, will eventually
materialize, but my energies for the time being are focused on (1) my wife
and her health and well-being during her pregnancy, (2) learning all I can
about being the best father I can be once they're born, (3) saving and
investing for her and their future well-being, and (4) my work and the
welfare of my clients, which also include the elderly.

Thus I'm a bit too busy with all that right now even to get into the
turntable system of my dreams and all the vinyl I'd love to purchase, which
would fit in the current "family room". I did get a chance last spring to
see and hear Marc Phillips' analogue system, and really like it. He has an
excellent TT and arm, great vinyl collection, and a superb cartridge, far
better than the more expensive version by the same manufacturer. Again, he
agreed with me that sitting a few feet back from his set-up listening
position improved the sound and eliminated some slight boominess in the
bass. Room size and speaker placement can make a lot of difference in a lot
of systems.

Those Soundlabs are pretty huge, BTW. What size of a room do you plan on
putting them in?

"Sandman" wrote in message


Real estate along prime coastal areas like Del Mar in San Diego is
far more expensive than in at least 95% of the country. For what I
paid and what my house is now worth, I could afford a huge mansion on
10 acres in many parts of the country, but I prefer being where I am
for many reasons, not the least of which is the top-notch school
system from K-12. It's a very nice two-story 5 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath
house with just the right amount of room for our plans for children
and family guests. But I converted a downstairs bedroom into one law
office, and one-third of the three-car garage into a second law
office.


The trip from Playa Del Rey to Del Mar seems like a heck of a commute.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sandman" wrote in message


Real estate along prime coastal areas like Del Mar in San Diego is
far more expensive than in at least 95% of the country. For what I
paid and what my house is now worth, I could afford a huge mansion on
10 acres in many parts of the country, but I prefer being where I am
for many reasons, not the least of which is the top-notch school
system from K-12. It's a very nice two-story 5 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath
house with just the right amount of room for our plans for children
and family guests. But I converted a downstairs bedroom into one law
office, and one-third of the three-car garage into a second law
office.


The trip from Playa Del Rey to Del Mar seems like a heck of a commute.

Well, it was, for a while while I still maintained an office in Santa Monica
(actually, about two hours each way). But I had planned the move for years
and developed quite a substantial clientel here before the move. The move
itself was a "heck of a move". It took us three months. Once you're my age,
you've accumulated a lot of "stuff" to move. Hence, my (and my wife's)
decision that this is it - no more moves - this is our dream house, and this
is where we'll live out the rest of our lives. One of the nicest things
about it right now is that *no one* has any ownership interest in it but us.
No mortgage, no debts.

From what I understand, the CLS models are far more sensitive to position
changes than the Quest Z's. Back when I was living in Playa Del Rey a few
years ago, two RAO friends (Marc Philips was one of them) confirmed that the
distance from the speakers as identically spaced made a difference -
standing about two feet back in the hallway there really improved the sound.

In my new San Diego house, I have that extra two feet of listening space,
and find that the ideal position for listening to them is right where I have
them.

If you feel that you have found the ideal spot then you are done with
positioning them.


Do you have any absorbtion or diffusion on the wall behind them?

No. Just wires. :-)

I don't have a "dedicated listening room", or I might experiment with
such
things.

A 1.2 million dollar house and the stereo has to share the room??? Have
you
thought about an addition to the house?

Real estate along prime coastal areas like Del Mar in San Diego is far more
expensive than in at least 95% of the country. For what I paid and what my
house is now worth, I could afford a huge mansion on 10 acres in many parts
of the country, but I prefer being where I am for many reasons, not the
least of which is the top-notch school system from K-12. It's a very nice
two-story 5 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath house with just the right amount of room for
our plans for children and family guests. But I converted a downstairs
bedroom into one law office, and one-third of the three-car garage into a
second law office.

I understand your situation better now. Thanks for the explination.


Yes, I've thought about an additional house - e.g., in Lake Tahoe.
Realistically, that's too far away.


Ironically we are considering a second house that would be even further away,
but that is a long story that is stillunfolding and not audio related.


But on a more serious note, I have a back yard which in the back third of it
has a slope gradually leading upwards to the houses above (I live on a
slight hill). I'm seriously looking into the legal, geological, and
architectural possibilities of carving out of that hill enough space to
construct a very large studio - which would not just be a "dedicated
listening room" replete with Martin Logan's top-of the line "Statement"
speaker system, and ARC's or VTL's top of the line amps and preamps, etc.,
etc., but also a drop-down-from-the-ceiling screen with a top of the line
projector and line quadrupler, with M/L surround speakers for video, plus a
stage with a concert grand Steinway and a French harpsichord like the
two-keyboard one my neighbors across the street have + a sophisticated
recording/miking system so I can play and record keyboard with a variety of
other musicians making a variety of types of music (and possibly producing
some marketable CDs/DVD-As/SACDs/master tapes. I've already discussed this
with JJ during his visits here (Jim Johnston, who used to post here) and the
possibility of hiring him as a technical consultant, and he's definitely
enthused. When the time comes, I may even hire JA and others the two of
them may recommend.

The Statements are amoung the best speakers I have ever heard. I cannot argue
with that choice. And they look good too.


BTW, I understand you also have Martin Logans and ARC tube amps. Good
taste, matey. :-)

Thank you. It is a nice combo. Ever tried the AtmaSphere amps? I here they
mate
well with the Soundlab full range electrostats. I am leaning towards
Soundlab
as a future upgrade.

I never listened to the Soundlabs outside of a CES and Stereophile show,
which isn't the best venue for them, but I do recall at one time they were
J. Gordon Holt's speakers of choice in his home.

They are pretty amazing IMO.


For the time being, I'm not on the market for experimenting with other
components. I'm happy for the time being with what I have, despite a few
compromises. My ultimate dream-system, as described above, will eventually
materialize, but my energies for the time being are focused on (1) my wife
and her health and well-being during her pregnancy, (2) learning all I can
about being the best father I can be once they're born, (3) saving and
investing for her and their future well-being, and (4) my work and the
welfare of my clients, which also include the elderly.

Fair enough. It looks like a huge project.



Thus I'm a bit too busy with all that right now even to get into the
turntable system of my dreams and all the vinyl I'd love to purchase, which
would fit in the current "family room". I did get a chance last spring to
see and hear Marc Phillips' analogue system, and really like it. He has an
excellent TT and arm, great vinyl collection, and a superb cartridge, far
better than the more expensive version by the same manufacturer. Again, he
agreed with me that sitting a few feet back from his set-up listening
position improved the sound and eliminated some slight boominess in the
bass. Room size and speaker placement can make a lot of difference in a lot
of systems.

I have heard his tuntable as well and I like it too. I think however the
Rosewood Pro is the best of the Koetsu line.



Those Soundlabs are pretty huge, BTW. What size of a room do you plan on
putting them in?

I was thinking about the A3s not the U1s.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...


From what I understand, the CLS models are far more sensitive to position
changes than the Quest Z's. Back when I was living in Playa Del Rey a
few
years ago, two RAO friends (Marc Philips was one of them) confirmed that
the
distance from the speakers as identically spaced made a difference -
standing about two feet back in the hallway there really improved the
sound.

In my new San Diego house, I have that extra two feet of listening space,
and find that the ideal position for listening to them is right where I
have
them.

If you feel that you have found the ideal spot then you are done with
positioning them.

I'm happy enough with it.

Do you have any absorbtion or diffusion on the wall behind them?

No. Just wires. :-)

I don't have a "dedicated listening room", or I might experiment with
such
things.

A 1.2 million dollar house and the stereo has to share the room??? Have
you
thought about an addition to the house?

Real estate along prime coastal areas like Del Mar in San Diego is far
more
expensive than in at least 95% of the country. For what I paid and what
my
house is now worth, I could afford a huge mansion on 10 acres in many
parts
of the country, but I prefer being where I am for many reasons, not the
least of which is the top-notch school system from K-12. It's a very
nice
two-story 5 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath house with just the right amount of room
for
our plans for children and family guests. But I converted a downstairs
bedroom into one law office, and one-third of the three-car garage into a
second law office.

I understand your situation better now. Thanks for the explination.

You're welcome.

Yes, I've thought about an additional house - e.g., in Lake Tahoe.
Realistically, that's too far away.


Ironically we are considering a second house that would be even further
away,
but that is a long story that is stillunfolding and not audio related.

Is RAO really "audio related" any more? :-)

But on a more serious note, I have a back yard which in the back third of
it
has a slope gradually leading upwards to the houses above (I live on a
slight hill). I'm seriously looking into the legal, geological, and
architectural possibilities of carving out of that hill enough space to
construct a very large studio - which would not just be a "dedicated
listening room" replete with Martin Logan's top-of the line "Statement"
speaker system, and ARC's or VTL's top of the line amps and preamps,
etc.,
etc., but also a drop-down-from-the-ceiling screen with a top of the line
projector and line quadrupler, with M/L surround speakers for video, plus
a
stage with a concert grand Steinway and a French harpsichord like the
two-keyboard one my neighbors across the street have + a sophisticated
recording/miking system so I can play and record keyboard with a variety
of
other musicians making a variety of types of music (and possibly
producing
some marketable CDs/DVD-As/SACDs/master tapes. I've already discussed
this
with JJ during his visits here (Jim Johnston, who used to post here) and
the
possibility of hiring him as a technical consultant, and he's definitely
enthused. When the time comes, I may even hire JA and others the two of
them may recommend.

The Statements are amoung the best speakers I have ever heard. I cannot
argue
with that choice. And they look good too.

I was blown away when I saw/heard them in a large room at a Stereophile show
in L.A. a few years back.

BTW, I understand you also have Martin Logans and ARC tube amps. Good
taste, matey. :-)

Thank you. It is a nice combo. Ever tried the AtmaSphere amps? I here
they
mate
well with the Soundlab full range electrostats. I am leaning towards
Soundlab
as a future upgrade.

I never listened to the Soundlabs outside of a CES and Stereophile show,
which isn't the best venue for them, but I do recall at one time they
were
J. Gordon Holt's speakers of choice in his home.

They are pretty amazing IMO.

Mr. Holt agrees.

For the time being, I'm not on the market for experimenting with other
components. I'm happy for the time being with what I have, despite a few
compromises. My ultimate dream-system, as described above, will
eventually
materialize, but my energies for the time being are focused on (1) my
wife
and her health and well-being during her pregnancy, (2) learning all I
can
about being the best father I can be once they're born, (3) saving and
investing for her and their future well-being, and (4) my work and the
welfare of my clients, which also include the elderly.

Fair enough. It looks like a huge project.

It's still in the idea/research stage.

Thus I'm a bit too busy with all that right now even to get into the
turntable system of my dreams and all the vinyl I'd love to purchase,
which
would fit in the current "family room". I did get a chance last spring
to
see and hear Marc Phillips' analogue system, and really like it. He has
an
excellent TT and arm, great vinyl collection, and a superb cartridge, far
better than the more expensive version by the same manufacturer. Again,
he
agreed with me that sitting a few feet back from his set-up listening
position improved the sound and eliminated some slight boominess in the
bass. Room size and speaker placement can make a lot of difference in a
lot
of systems.

I have heard his tuntable as well and I like it too. I think however the
Rosewood Pro is the best of the Koetsu line.

Ahh... but the price difference!

Those Soundlabs are pretty huge, BTW. What size of a room do you plan on
putting them in?

I was thinking about the A3s not the U1s.

Gotcha. Good luck with your upgrades!

S888Wheel said:

I have heard his tuntable as well and I like it too. I think however the
Rosewood Pro is the best of the Koetsu line.

There seems to be a consensus that there is a big difference between the
standard Rosewood, which I own, and the Rosewood Signature, which you own. The
Sig is much better at the frequency extremes. Both cartridges have the same
lush midrange, though.

I've been working my way through the Koetsu line, starting with the Black, and
now with the Rosewood. Koetsu and Musical Surroundings have such a generous
trade-in policy on Koetsus that it makes sense to merely trade up when it comes
to replacing the stylus. So it seems that the Sig is my next stop, but the
Urushi is only $500 more than the Sig, and you get the fantastic artwork. Dr.
Ken has an Urushi...maybe he'll comment here if he sees this.

Boon

S888Wheel said:

I have heard his tuntable as well and I like it too. I think however the
Rosewood Pro is the best of the Koetsu line.

There seems to be a consensus that there is a big difference between the
standard Rosewood, which I own, and the Rosewood Signature, which you own.
The
Sig is much better at the frequency extremes. Both cartridges have the same
lush midrange, though.

I've been working my way through the Koetsu line, starting with the Black,
and
now with the Rosewood. Koetsu and Musical Surroundings have such a generous
trade-in policy on Koetsus that it makes sense to merely trade up when it
comes
to replacing the stylus. So it seems that the Sig is my next stop, but the
Urushi is only $500 more than the Sig, and you get the fantastic artwork.
Dr.
Ken has an Urushi...maybe he'll comment here if he sees this.

Boon

IME once you are in the Koetsu line you are talking about the differences
amoung quality gems. With that said, I have found the Rosewood bodies to offer
the sound which is....most Koetsu like. The Urushi is a great cartridge but I
think all the Rosewoods, including yours are more Koetsu like in the midrange.

Is RAO really "audio related" any more? :-)


Sometimes.