George Gleason wrote:
"Walt" wrote
George Gleason wrote:

I have had tons of problems with worn or oversized holes in the A3f
that and that crappy rubber boot pulls free, the reverse thread tiny
screw that needs a special screwdriver to access/feild repair has me
swore off switchcraft forever

You consider a little green screwdriver a "special" tool? WTF?

Find yourself without one on a gig in bimbuk idaho needing to do feild
service and you will understand
everything is easy when you have the right tools, with neutricks all I need
are my fingers, never leave home without them.

You can solder with just your fingers? I'm impressed.

//Walt

"Walt" wrote in message
...
George Gleason wrote:
"Walt" wrote
George Gleason wrote:

I have had tons of problems with worn or oversized holes in the A3f
that and that crappy rubber boot pulls free, the reverse thread tiny
screw that needs a special screwdriver to access/feild repair has me
swore off switchcraft forever

You consider a little green screwdriver a "special" tool? WTF?

Find yourself without one on a gig in bimbuk idaho needing to do feild
service and you will understand
everything is easy when you have the right tools, with neutricks all I
need are my fingers, never leave home without them.

You can solder with just your fingers? I'm impressed.

would you say the majority of cable fails involve a solder joint?

i guess this is getting quite pointless though
my point is I find it extreamly unlikely you have "thousands " of failed
neutrik xlrs, to do so you must own 10's of millions of them
I do own "thousnads of neutrik connectors and find them by far the most
reliable easiest to instal and service xlr connector on the market
I thought I'd died and gone to heaven ,discoverd sliced bread when I used
my first neutrik and could finally get away from the IMO much more poorly
designed and vastly more unreliable A3f/m connectors

if you do have thousands of failed neutriks on your hands I will gladly pay
the shipping to take them as neutrik will replace them free of charge
george

George Gleason wrote:
"Walt" wrote
George Gleason wrote:
"Walt" wrote
George Gleason wrote:

Find yourself without one on a gig in bimbuk idaho needing to do feild
service and you will understand
everything is easy when you have the right tools, with neutricks all I
need are my fingers, never leave home without them.

You can solder with just your fingers? I'm impressed.

would you say the majority of cable fails involve a solder joint?

I'd say that the majority of cable repairs involve soldering, regardless
of the failure mode.

i guess this is getting quite pointless though
my point is I find it extreamly unlikely you have "thousands " of failed
neutrik xlrs,

I didn't say I *have* thousands of them, I said that I've *seen*
hundreds, perhaps thousands, of failed neutrik XLR connectors. The true
number is probably somewhere betwen 200 and 500, but I can't say I've
kept an explicit count.

Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the ends
has failed - somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Patch cables, and snake ends are a different story, they don't tend to
get stepped on as much.

if you do have thousands of failed neutriks on your hands I will gladly pay
the shipping to take them as neutrik will replace them free of charge

Most of them long since thrown away.

//Walt

Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the ends
has failed -

bull****

somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using them
after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30 connectors
that broke.

Patch cables, and snake ends are a different story, they don't tend to get
stepped on as much.
I have hundreds of mic cables used on stages all over the east coast
acts from hard core metal to gospel chiors
what you saying simply is not supported by experiance

you at the very least VASTLY exagerating your claims, IMO your simply not
being truthful
so you have a axe to grind BFD
either that or the artists and help you have haate you and they are stomping
your cables just to spite you
I have seen the following drive over my cable ends without fails
a Bulldozer(cat d-6)
a 33000 lb truck
a zamboni
a Hillclimb motorcycle with huge chains on its wheels
hundreds of cars at car shows
a abrams tank
again
your claims just sound like ouright bull****
keep proclaiming them if you like
but I don't buy it
george

George Gleason wrote:

bull****..

what you saying simply is not supported by experiance

you at the very least VASTLY exagerating your claims, IMO your simply not
being truthful
so you have a axe to grind

Calm down, George. You're expirience is different than mine. That
doesn't mean I'm a liar, or that I have an axe to grind.

There may be a good explanition for the differences e.g. the time period
(most of my experinece with the bad neutriks was 15 years ago), a bad
batch of connectors that made their way to my part of the world,
environmental variables (gear in the truck overnight in sub-zero
weather), or something else. Maybe I'm just unlucky.


I have seen the following drive over my cable ends without fails
a Bulldozer(cat d-6)
a 33000 lb truck
a zamboni
a Hillclimb motorcycle with huge chains on its wheels
hundreds of cars at car shows
a abrams tank

Speaking of difficult to believe claims...

//Walt

"George Gleason" wrote in message
ink.net...

Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the ends
has failed -

bull****

somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Patch cables, and snake ends are a different story, they don't tend to
get stepped on as much.
I have hundreds of mic cables used on stages all over the east coast
acts from hard core metal to gospel chiors
what you saying simply is not supported by experiance

you at the very least VASTLY exagerating your claims, IMO your simply not
being truthful
so you have a axe to grind BFD
either that or the artists and help you have haate you and they are
stomping your cables just to spite you
I have seen the following drive over my cable ends without fails
a Bulldozer(cat d-6)
a 33000 lb truck
a zamboni
a Hillclimb motorcycle with huge chains on its wheels
hundreds of cars at car shows
a abrams tank
again
your claims just sound like ouright bull****
keep proclaiming them if you like
but I don't buy it
george


I'm with George on this. I have just run over a Neutrik XLR in my car about
20 times and I can't break it. How about someone with a truck doing the
same thing? Oh, George has already done that.



Gareth.

Gareth Magennis wrote:

I have just run over a Neutrik XLR in my car about
20 times and I can't break it.

You need harder tires.

GEEZ, LOOWEEZE! WHY DO YOU PEOPLE DO THIS? Do you run over your
computers too? (sometimes I think I'd like to do just that)

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in
message

I'm with George on this. I have just run over a Neutrik
XLR in my car about 20 times and I can't break it. How
about someone with a truck doing the same thing? Oh,
George has already done that.

I figure that a heavily-loaded fork lift with steel wheels rolling over a
XLR end on a concrete or heavy steel-plate floor, might cause the plastic on
a Neutrik crack. Probably bend the metal, too.

I've got images of bored roadies lining mic cords up on the floor and then
taking bets on who can steer the fork lift straight enough, long enough, to
nail the most connectors.

Just wait - Neutrik will come out with XLRs with a heavy titanium shell that
protects the threaded insert.

"Gareth Magennis" wrote:

I'm with George on this. I have just run over a Neutrik XLR in my
car about 20 times and I can't break it.


That's not how they break. You gotta reach for your coffee while
holding a mic, a stand and a cable. When the cable slips between your
fingers and falls to the floor, THEN it will break.

The other way to break them is to plug them in really fast 'cause the
drummer was late and you're on the air in six minutes. Spin the
connector to line up the pins and the catch snaps.

It's interesting that driving a tank over them won't break them, 'cause
just stepping on them sure will. Maybe it has something to do with
weight distribution.

At least that's been our experience. We've ruined scores of 'em in just
seven or eight years of live TV. I don't think any other brand would
have been any better, but I can personally refute any claim that the
Neutriks are somehow impervious to damage from normal use. We work 'em
hard, maybe harder than a typical studio, but we don't have any tanks or
trucks in the studio and ours still break regularly.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
"Gareth Magennis" wrote:
I'm with George on this. I have just run over a Neutrik XLR in my
car about 20 times and I can't break it.


That's not how they break. You gotta reach for your coffee while
holding a mic, a stand and a cable. When the cable slips between your
fingers and falls to the floor, THEN it will break.

The other way to break them is to plug them in really fast 'cause the
drummer was late and you're on the air in six minutes. Spin the
connector to line up the pins and the catch snaps.

It's interesting that driving a tank over them won't break them, 'cause
just stepping on them sure will. Maybe it has something to do with
weight distribution.

At least that's been our experience. We've ruined scores of 'em in just
seven or eight years of live TV. I don't think any other brand would
have been any better, but I can personally refute any claim that the
Neutriks are somehow impervious to damage from normal use. We work 'em
hard, maybe harder than a typical studio, but we don't have any tanks or
trucks in the studio and ours still break regularly.

The only failure I commonly see, and it is endemic to all XLR
connectors with metal bodied, is that the male end gets driven over,
stepped on, dropped from height onto hard surface, and the shell is
knocked out of round enough to no longer plug in.
I've found Neutriks no more or less durable than other brands from
reputable makers. There are cheap chinese XLRs out there that rather
than bend, the metal cracks and shatters. But they are nameless
connectors that show up at local shops in the dollar bin.

--Dale

Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the
ends
has failed - somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Every one? You're not exagerrating for effect here? Every single one of
30 Neutrik-equipped cables you've owned has broken? Brother, either you
got some seriously bad luck, or this is a case of incomprehendable user
misuse.

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser wrote:

Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the
ends
has failed - somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Every one? You're not exagerrating for effect here? Every single one of
30 Neutrik-equipped cables you've owned has broken? Brother, either you
got some seriously bad luck, or this is a case of incomprehendable user
misuse.

Well, some of them may have been stolen or lost. The last time I bought
a mic cable with neutrik ends was over 15 years ago. They're all gone
now - I either replaced the ends or threw them away.

From others comments here it appears that Neutrik has improved their
product in the interveneving years.

//Walt

Scott Fraser wrote:
Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the
ends
has failed - somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Every one? You're not exagerrating for effect here? Every single one of
30 Neutrik-equipped cables you've owned has broken? Brother, either you
got some seriously bad luck, or this is a case of incomprehendable user
misuse.

Scott Fraser


It seems that there is more than a little hyperbole being thrown around
on this subject. I like the Neutriks, in general. I like the
Switchcrafts as well. I've had 'some' trouble with both. I do like
that the inserts on the Switchcrafts are available separately. I've
fixed a lot of A3F's (and a few A3M's--but they don't break as often)
cheaply by replacing those.

I'm waiting for a 'bullet proof' XLR; which is both extremely durable
and easy to install/service. I don't think it exists, so I'll deal with
what's available.

I don't see any need to get upset about it; or making up wild stories (a
bulldozer? I'd like to see that one...maybe on soft ground, but....) to
support my decision.

jak

jakdedert wrote:

I'm waiting for a 'bullet proof' XLR; which is both extremely durable
and easy to install/service. I don't think it exists, so I'll deal with
what's available.

Bendix used to make one. It used crimp-on connectors (requiring a tool
that cost several hundred dollars for the cheap non-pneumatic version)
and a screw-together body sort of like the Amphenol Series 96 connectors.

It was intended for military folks who were used to A&N and KPT connectors
and went together in the same way. Some of the military cable guys are
very heavily into gastight crimps and don't like solder-type connectors
for high vibration work.

I don't know how much it cost but it went together with the same tooling
the KPT connectors used so it couldn't have been cheap.

I don't see any need to get upset about it; or making up wild stories (a
bulldozer? I'd like to see that one...maybe on soft ground, but....) to
support my decision.

I once saw a remote truck drive away without all the cables being disconnected.
The Belden cable broke before the Switchcraft XLR did. But not after
considerable damage had been done by the console being towed through
the wall...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I don't see any need to get upset about it; or making up wild stories (a
bulldozer? I'd like to see that one...maybe on soft ground, but....) to
support my decision.

jak

bulldozer at Poags Hole AMA hillclimb(same place the motorcycle ran over my
wires)
out of now where this d-6 came rumbling through to recut the start finish
area on the hill
www.poagshole.com
george

George Gleason wrote:

bulldozer at Poags Hole AMA hillclimb(same place the motorcycle ran over my
wires)
out of now where this d-6 came rumbling through to recut the start finish
area on the hill

Never had a bulldozer, but I have had cranes, Genie lifts, remote trucks,
generator trucks, an ATM truck sliding down a hill of mud with people
chasing after it, beer trucks, riding mowers, and horses all run over
cables.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

George Gleason wrote:
I don't see any need to get upset about it; or making up wild stories (a
bulldozer? I'd like to see that one...maybe on soft ground, but....) to
support my decision.

jak

bulldozer at Poags Hole AMA hillclimb(same place the motorcycle ran over my
wires)
out of now where this d-6 came rumbling through to recut the start finish
area on the hill
www.poagshole.com
george



Yup, soft ground, indeed. Try the same thing on a concrete floor...or
fill the roadcase a little too full and slam the lid on one.

They'll all break.

jak

Scott Fraser wrote:
Every single mic cable I've ever owned that had neutrik XLRs on the
ends
has failed - somebody steps on the conector, the plastic screw-on
strain relief cracks, and the connector falls apart. I stopped using
them after a couple of dozen, so I've probably only owned about 30
connectors that broke.

Every one? You're not exagerrating for effect here? Every single one of
30 Neutrik-equipped cables you've owned has broken? Brother, either you
got some seriously bad luck, or this is a case of incomprehendable user
misuse.

Every single mike cable I've ever owned has failed, or will fail someday
in the future.

Incomprehensible user misuse is what music festivals are ALL ABOUT.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Incomprehensible user misuse is what music festivals are ALL ABOUT.


I've supervised a lot of stage crews consisting primarily of lighting
guys, stage carpenters or untrained volunteers. They can do stuff to
kink up a cable I never thought was possible, but they've never broken
an XLR connector on a gig I've been on. Maybe I don't wear the right
kind of Doc Martens & I don't weigh 400 lbs, but how do you break an
XLR by stepping on it? You need to be trying.

Scott Fraser

George Gleason wrote:

I do own "thousnads of neutrik connectors and find them by far the most
reliable easiest to instal and service xlr connector on the market
I thought I'd died and gone to heaven ,discoverd sliced bread when I used
my first neutrik and could finally get away from the IMO much more poorly
designed and vastly more unreliable A3f/m connectors

I don't understand this. What's poorly designed and unreliable about a
Switchcraft A3M/F connector? There's only one free part, and that's the
insert, and it's some soft of glass filled plastic that's really hard
to melt. Everything else else stays together. The various Neutrik
designes I've had in my hands have a strain relief (plastic), a collet
that holds the cable (plastic), an insert (plastic) and the metal
shell. And the insert on at least some models is easy to melt and the
pins get out of alignment. I've done it. And then there's that o-ring
that makes the females hard to plug together with Switchdraft males
unless you remove it, and then they feel a little loose.

Gimme Switchcraft (at least the ones that I have in my stock). Like
computers, though, I'm sure there have been a few changes for the worst
in an attempt to give the buyer the latest cool features, whatever they
might be on an XLR connector.

Mike Rivers wrote:
George Gleason wrote:

I do own "thousnads of neutrik connectors and find them by far the most
reliable easiest to instal and service xlr connector on the market
I thought I'd died and gone to heaven ,discoverd sliced bread when I used
my first neutrik and could finally get away from the IMO much more poorly
designed and vastly more unreliable A3f/m connectors

I don't understand this. What's poorly designed and unreliable about a
Switchcraft A3M/F connector?

The female connector has the connector holes surrounded by a hard light
blue material (not sure what it is). Since it's rigid, the holes have
no 'springiness' unlike the genuine Cannon connector which have rubber
as the surround material. Eventually the holes can become loose making
for flaky connections, but this is after a couple decades of use.

Minor point, but you asked. Other than that, I'm not sure what George
is on about.


//Walt

Walt wrote:

The female connector has the connector holes surrounded by a hard light
blue material (not sure what it is). Since it's rigid, the holes have
no 'springiness' unlike the genuine Cannon connector which have rubber
as the surround material.

This sounds like near-precision alignment to me. g The holes in the
insert are slightly larger in diameter than the pins on the male plug
and serve to guide the pins into the socket. If the pins are badly bend
on the male end, the holes in the insert keep you from inserting the
bad connector and ruining another connector. I suppose that some "show
must go on - I don't have time to get another cable" brutes will try to
force it anyway.

Eventually the holes can become loose making
for flaky connections, but this is after a couple decades of use.

All connectors have a finite number of insertions. I don't see this
number being significantly different among the various manufacturers,
though I haven't looked for an actual number. That's Arny's assignment,
if he chooses to accept it.

If you're a busy guy like George with a lot of rental gear going out to
the same kind of people who abuse rental cars because they're not their
own, I can see that the life of any cable in months is going to be
shorter than that for someone like me. The only XLR style problems that
I've ever had has been with the female chassis mounted connectors (D3F)
when the latch tab (the thing that says "PUSH" on it) gets bent into a
position where you can't push it and the plug won't go in. This usually
occurs on a stage box that's been dragged across the stage connector
side down.

But "modern" connectors have solved that problem - look, ma, no latch!