On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:59:06 GMT, wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:53:13 GMT, wrote:


Another factor is that with classical music you have a limited supply of
"product," whereas pop music has a new batch of people fresh out their
garage or prefab groups created by record companies to constantly put out
new product, that is trying to copy the older product, etc., etc.

Not true, Mike. There are vast amounts of neglected music from the
last 100 years or so waiting to be discovered

If they are undiscovered, how do you know there are vast amounts?
Perhaps they are undiscoverd because the composers or the audiences of the
time didn't care for them.

"Undiscovered" by the masses, but not unknown to the congniscenti.

, plus plenty of young
composers ready to start composing tomorrow if there's a market and
money.

That's always going to be a problem, without a reasonable solution other
than renewed interest.
One can only hope, but I think that composers like John Williams might be
helpful insofar as their music tends to be easily encountered and more
exciting to the unitiated.

Agreed. This relates to my remarks about the young looking to film
music for cultural sustenance. Had there been more artists like
Williams over the years perhaps classical music might not have
suffered such decline. The problem is that young people today will
never connect to Mozart operas and Haydn quartets; even I don't. They
might however be persuaded to listen to the likes of Shostakovich etc,
music that basically speaks the same language as film music. I've
always been astonished at the distain with which film music is treated
by concert hall snobs when it is in reality a "crossover" medium, a
way of involving the young in serious music. In recent years there
have even been film music concerts where the film in question is
projected behind the orchestra so that the audience can relate
directly to the music's subject. This was done with the sea battle in
Ben-Hur and I believe it was a huge hit. It might seem crass to the
elitists, but it might also be classical music's only hope.

As someone said once about atonalism, "There's still much more
to be said in the key of C."

If it doesn't have something with a melody you can hum when you walk out,
it's probably doomed.

Possibly true, but that in itself isn't so terrible. We start with
that and maybe move on later.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:59:06 GMT, wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:53:13 GMT, wrote:


Another factor is that with classical music you have a limited supply of
"product," whereas pop music has a new batch of people fresh out their
garage or prefab groups created by record companies to constantly put
out
new product, that is trying to copy the older product, etc., etc.

Not true, Mike. There are vast amounts of neglected music from the
last 100 years or so waiting to be discovered

If they are undiscovered, how do you know there are vast amounts?
Perhaps they are undiscoverd because the composers or the audiences of the
time didn't care for them.

"Undiscovered" by the masses, but not unknown to the congniscenti.

That's pretty much all classical music for the masses. They have heard of a
few names like Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart, but that's about it. Both of
the claissical musci stations here, one run out of USC and the other a
(gasp) commercial station play much of the undiscovered composers.


, plus plenty of young
composers ready to start composing tomorrow if there's a market and
money.

That's always going to be a problem, without a reasonable solution other
than renewed interest.
One can only hope, but I think that composers like John Williams might be
helpful insofar as their music tends to be easily encountered and more
exciting to the unitiated.

Agreed. This relates to my remarks about the young looking to film
music for cultural sustenance. Had there been more artists like
Williams over the years perhaps classical music might not have
suffered such decline. The problem is that young people today will
never connect to Mozart operas and Haydn quartets; even I don't. They
might however be persuaded to listen to the likes of Shostakovich etc,
music that basically speaks the same language as film music.

My God man, COPLAND! Fanfare for the Common Man! Nobody wrote music that
screamed "make a movie around me," the way he did.

I've
always been astonished at the distain with which film music is treated
by concert hall snobs when it is in reality a "crossover" medium, a
way of involving the young in serious music.

Yet another reason that the unitiated would veer away from classical music,
snobbery.
I once met a woman who considered the music of Stravinsky to be "pop" music.

In recent years there
have even been film music concerts where the film in question is
projected behind the orchestra so that the audience can relate
directly to the music's subject. This was done with the sea battle in
Ben-Hur and I believe it was a huge hit. It might seem crass to the
elitists, but it might also be classical music's only hope.


They do similar things at the Hollywood Bowl.

As someone said once about atonalism, "There's still much more
to be said in the key of C."

If it doesn't have something with a melody you can hum when you walk out,
it's probably doomed.

Possibly true, but that in itself isn't so terrible. We start with
that and maybe move on later.

Maybe part of the problem is that in the days when I went to school there
was less concentration on things other than the 3 R's plus music and phys
ed. In middle school and High School we had the Seattle Symphony Orchestra
perform in our auditorium, I don't know if they do things like that anymore,
but it's certainly a valuable part of education. Things in the California
school system are so completely ****ed that music and art are not considered
essential, even though there is a connection between math and music. This
stems from so many years of concentrating on keeping the students stupid
that trying to catch up, (as if that were possible) has caused most parents
to want the focus placed on the 3 R's, since in very many cases here, Johnny
can't ****ing read. High School students are required to pass an exit exam
that is at an EIGHTH GRADE LEVEL and teachers are complaining and students
in most minority schools fail. Roughly 51% do not pass this test in those
areas. It's a goddamn crime and I blame much of it on the teachers unions
for not being proactive when the evidence was staring them in the face for
years. But that's another rant for another day.