Hi All--

Just wondering if anybody has some good advice for dealing with a compressed
sounding guitar in the background of a vocal track. This was the first time
I tried recording someone who refused to do overdubs. I miked the guitar
with a hypercardiod condenser (rode s1) and compressed the vocal track going
in. It was a mistake I realize now, but I'd like to know the best way to
work with the tracks I have...this was a one-time deal. Thanks,

Paul

Paul Kotheimer wrote:

Just wondering if anybody has some good advice for dealing with a compressed
sounding guitar in the background of a vocal track. This was the first time
I tried recording someone who refused to do overdubs. I miked the guitar
with a hypercardiod condenser (rode s1) and compressed the vocal track going
in. It was a mistake I realize now, but I'd like to know the best way to
work with the tracks I have...this was a one-time deal. Thanks,

Well, if you bring both tracks up... how does it sound?
Leakage is only a problem if it sounds bad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Leakage is only a problem if it sounds bad

Excellent point! I've successfully recorded and mixed many guitar/vocals, or
piano/vocals. It never sounds bad (unless the artist sucks). Some of my
favorite recordings by singers like Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, Joni
Mitchell, Nora Jones, Sarah McGlaughlin, Nirvana, Johnny Cash, and NWA/Dr.
Dre have elements of leakage that do not detract in any way from the great
sound of the final mix.


--
Regards,

Ted Perlman
Producer-Arranger-Composer-Guitarist

www.tedperlman.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Paul Kotheimer wrote:

Just wondering if anybody has some good advice for dealing with a
compressed
sounding guitar in the background of a vocal track. This was the first
time
I tried recording someone who refused to do overdubs. I miked the guitar
with a hypercardiod condenser (rode s1) and compressed the vocal track
going
in. It was a mistake I realize now, but I'd like to know the best way to
work with the tracks I have...this was a one-time deal. Thanks,

Well, if you bring both tracks up... how does it sound?
Leakage is only a problem if it sounds bad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Sounds really good actually. I don't even know if I really hear the
compression in the final mix or if it's just in my head. The clients said
they thought it sounded great when I played back what I tracked to them...so
maybe you're right Scott (as usual).

Paul

Paul Kotheimer wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Paul Kotheimer wrote:

Just wondering if anybody has some good advice for dealing with a
compressed
sounding guitar in the background of a vocal track. This was the first
time
I tried recording someone who refused to do overdubs. I miked the guitar
with a hypercardiod condenser (rode s1) and compressed the vocal track
going
in. It was a mistake I realize now, but I'd like to know the best way to
work with the tracks I have...this was a one-time deal. Thanks,

Well, if you bring both tracks up... how does it sound?
Leakage is only a problem if it sounds bad.

Sounds really good actually. I don't even know if I really hear the
compression in the final mix or if it's just in my head. The clients said
they thought it sounded great when I played back what I tracked to them...so
maybe you're right Scott (as usual).

If the client likes it, it's good.

You can also try fiddling around with delay if the leakage has caused comb
filtering in the guitar. But again, if it's not a problem, don't worry
about it.

Next time track without compression. These days we have plenty of dynamic
range and there's no reason to compress on tracking. Also try using mikes
with better rejection. I think getting good rejection on the guitar is
more important than on the vocal because a little comb filtering on the
guitar isn't as bad as a little comb filtering on the vocal. If you have
figure-8 mikes, this is the time to use them.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 1/30/06 1:43 PM, in article ,
"Paul Kotheimer" wrote:


Well, if you bring both tracks up... how does it sound?
Leakage is only a problem if it sounds bad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Sounds really good actually. I don't even know if I really hear the
compression in the final mix or if it's just in my head. The clients said
they thought it sounded great when I played back what I tracked to them...so
maybe you're right Scott (as usual).

Wait! wait!
You WON! Nobody complained?
DEAL!

Now.. For curiosity's sake, as a technical experiment (which is how I'm
a-readin' yer re-quest) I'll assume that you have a clean and
little-to-no-vocal GUITAR track recorded at the same time as the vocal
track...
In that case you can try playing with mixing some of the dry guitar into the
vocal track in as-exact-a-reverse-polarity (I Hereby Refuse To Get Sucked
Into Another Pointless Polarity-vs-Phase Creationism Fight) manner as you
can manage. This means you need to -

get the guitar track to match TIME as closely as possible to the
vocal-mic-guitar leak (unless you;re real lucky and your voc-mic-to-guitar
distance actually matched your guitar-mic-to-guitar distance)

and then

decide which polarity -cancels- the guitar sound...

You may want to try some odd eq on the guitar track to make it sound more
like the leak into the vocal mic for a better cancellation

You may want to try matching the compression on the vocal track so the
guitar cancellation matches the dynamic futzing...

This is really annoying to wrestle into shape, especially when there's some
VOCAL leak on the GUITAR track that then starts interfereing with the clean
vocal track... TANSTAAFL -always- holds true.

but when you get it.. It's really fun... Look Ma! No Leak!

Ted Perlman wrote:

.... and NWA/Dr.
Dre have elements of leakage that do not detract in any way from the great
sound of the final mix.

woah. I was with you up until this point. What kind of pleasant
leakage are you referring to with NWA/Dre? Blasting headphone mix
getting into the vocal mic? Just curious.

Dan Fox

What kind of pleasant leakage are you referring to with NWA/Dre? Blasting
headphone mix
getting into the vocal mic

Sometimes. I just finished working on 4 tracks with Burt Bacharach & Dr. Dre
on Burt's new Grammy-nominated CD "At This Time" (Columbia). I got to listen
to Dre's loops and beats solo, and they sounded great. Not pristine clean,
but great. Sometimes there was some HH on the snare, sometimes some HH on
the kick, etc. Didn't matter. Listen to some of the early Beatles stereo
mixes. You can hear the headphone bleed before John comes in singing, etc.
I'm not a huge fan of too much leakage, but it seems that whenever I get
anal and start taking out too much leakage and room noise, the "ambience"
and "space" of the recording starts to disappear. I really notice it at mix
time.