I know this topic has been addressed, but I'd like to approach
it with the gear (mics) I have on hand. (tends to be semi-pro)
I wouldn't be adverse to buying a couple low-budget ($700 total) mics
if needed.
(i.e. Sure small-diaphragm ?)

I want to mic my Mason-Hamlin 7' concert grand. It's in need of new
hammers, consequently
the sound is a bit glassy/bright. So, I'd like to bring out the bottom
end if possible.

What I have is, one Neumann U-87, One RCA DX-77, (2) Sure SM-58s, (1)
Sure SM-57,
and an AKG D-1000E

Any/all ideas appreciated - rogerj

I purchased a set of Avenson Audio STO-2s with a particular piano
recording gig in mind and to use around my home studio as a basic
stereo pair. I've been quite pleased personally with the piano sound I
get from them, although that's mostly due to the quality of the player
(a PhD cadidate classical pianist). They don't have much of a
proximity effect, so putting them up next to the strings won't increase
the bass response although you may be able to find, by walking around
the piano while someone else plays it, a spot where there's a better
balance of high frequency/low frequency sounds than what you're
currently hearing. I bought my STO-2s from Mercenary Audio for $500
for a pair, here's the link to the page on their website:

http://www.mercenary.com/sto2microphone.html

I don't have any experience with using more than two mics on a piano,
but perhaps one of the other mics you mention which has a decent
proximity bass boost could be used in conjuction with a stereo pair of
STO-2s to bring out the bottom end as well. I haven't used anything
else on your list aside from SM-57s and I don't think the poximity
effect from a SM-57 would outweigh its mid-range boost enough to be
useful for getting more bass out of the piano.

-Andrew-

One of the posters at the 3db discussion forum did some testing of mic
solutions for his piano recording.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=1335

Apparently he has a CD available.

Fran

wrote:

I purchased a set of Avenson Audio STO-2s

http://www.mercenary.com/sto2microphone.html



Damn, another manufacturer playing fast and loose with established
standards. I thought phantom powered mics were only supposed to draw
2ma each? These draw 6ma each.

Equivalent noise 28dB -- not a complete spec, but at least suggests that
these might be better suited to loud instruments as that's REALLY noisy.
Then again, whaddaya want for $500/pr.?

The frequency response graph looks really nice. Pretty much flat to
10K, dropping a couple dB over the last octave. Should sound real
natural.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin, 6 mA for a 48-Volt phantom powered microphone is well within the
DIN EN specification, which allows for a maxmimum of 10 mA per
microphone. That is not new; I think you may actually be thinking of a
rather old version of the DIN standard, perhaps from 1968.

Since the mid-1970s, 48-Volt condenser microphones requiring more than
2 mA have become quite common, especially with transformerless output
circuits and maximum SPL specifications in of 130+ dB. 48-Volt phantom
powered microphones that require more than 2 mA are sold by Neumann,
Schoeps, AKG, DPA, Sennheiser, Shure, CAD (8 mA!), Earthworks (10 mA!)
and other manufacturers. If people want very wide dynamic range from a
microphone, its output stage will need a certain operating current.

Schoeps introduced the first transformerless 48-Volt phantom powered
microphones in 1973; Neumann followed suit a mere ten years later with
the TLM 170i. But even before then there were microphones that needed
more than 2 mA apiece at 48 Volts, such as the AKG C 414EB (3 mA if its
circuit was modified for exclusive use at 48 Volts, following some
instructions in the operating manual; otherwise, 5.5 mA "out of the
box") and C 451 (5.5 mA). AKG eventually offered special versions of
these microphones for studios with lower-current 48-Volt supplies--the
C 414EB-P48 and C 452 respectively.

When Neumann improved the circuitry of some of its microphones a few
years ago, their required operating current was increased. The
sensitivity and maximum output voltage of the TLM 193 were increased by
4+ dB but the noise level and maximum SPL were kept the same; this
necessitated an increase in operating current from 2.4 mA to 3 mA. When
the KM 180 series amplifiers were updated, on the other hand, their
equivalent noise level specification was reduced by 3 dB while their
sensitivity and maximum output levels were not changed, but the current
requirement changed from 2.3 mA to 3.2 mA per microphone.

What does it say about us that we find this stuff interesting?

--best regards

"David Satz" wrote:

Lorin, 6 mA for a 48-Volt phantom powered microphone is well within
the DIN EN specification, which allows for a maxmimum of 10 mA per
microphone.

As soon as I read that, I thought, "Oh yeah, *10* per, not 2... why did
I think it was 2?"



That is not new; I think you may actually be thinking of a
rather old version of the DIN standard, perhaps from 1968.

No, just the usualy brain rot. Same as always, nothing new. Move
along, nothing to see here.



What does it say about us that we find this stuff interesting?

Please don't ask me to consider concepts like that. I usually wind up
unhappy. g

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

David Satz wrote:

Lorin, 6 mA for a 48-Volt phantom powered microphone is well within the
DIN EN specification, which allows for a maxmimum of 10 mA per
microphone. That is not new; I think you may actually be thinking of a
rather old version of the DIN standard, perhaps from 1968.

Since the mid-1970s, 48-Volt condenser microphones requiring more than
2 mA have become quite common, especially with transformerless output
circuits and maximum SPL specifications in of 130+ dB. 48-Volt phantom
powered microphones that require more than 2 mA are sold by Neumann,
Schoeps, AKG, DPA, Sennheiser, Shure, CAD (8 mA!), Earthworks (10 mA!)
and other manufacturers. If people want very wide dynamic range from a
microphone, its output stage will need a certain operating current.

Schoeps introduced the first transformerless 48-Volt phantom powered
microphones in 1973; Neumann followed suit a mere ten years later with
the TLM 170i. But even before then there were microphones that needed
more than 2 mA apiece at 48 Volts, such as the AKG C 414EB (3 mA if its
circuit was modified for exclusive use at 48 Volts, following some
instructions in the operating manual; otherwise, 5.5 mA "out of the
box") and C 451 (5.5 mA). AKG eventually offered special versions of
these microphones for studios with lower-current 48-Volt supplies--the
C 414EB-P48 and C 452 respectively.

When Neumann improved the circuitry of some of its microphones a few
years ago, their required operating current was increased. The
sensitivity and maximum output voltage of the TLM 193 were increased by
4+ dB but the noise level and maximum SPL were kept the same; this
necessitated an increase in operating current from 2.4 mA to 3 mA. When
the KM 180 series amplifiers were updated, on the other hand, their
equivalent noise level specification was reduced by 3 dB while their
sensitivity and maximum output levels were not changed, but the current
requirement changed from 2.3 mA to 3.2 mA per microphone.

What does it say about us that we find this stuff interesting?

That you strive to understand your mics and their performance envelopes.
Thanks for being like that.

--
ha

That you strive to understand your mics and their performance envelopes.
Thanks for being like that.

David has always been one of my informational heros when it comes to mics.
He doesn't skimp on detail and he knows his ****. So I agree. Thanks
again, David. You are a whorehouse of knowledge! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Is our children learning?"
President George W. Bush
"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
David Satz wrote:

Lorin, 6 mA for a 48-Volt phantom powered microphone is well within the
DIN EN specification, which allows for a maxmimum of 10 mA per
microphone. That is not new; I think you may actually be thinking of a
rather old version of the DIN standard, perhaps from 1968.

Since the mid-1970s, 48-Volt condenser microphones requiring more than
2 mA have become quite common, especially with transformerless output
circuits and maximum SPL specifications in of 130+ dB. 48-Volt phantom
powered microphones that require more than 2 mA are sold by Neumann,
Schoeps, AKG, DPA, Sennheiser, Shure, CAD (8 mA!), Earthworks (10 mA!)
and other manufacturers. If people want very wide dynamic range from a
microphone, its output stage will need a certain operating current.

Schoeps introduced the first transformerless 48-Volt phantom powered
microphones in 1973; Neumann followed suit a mere ten years later with
the TLM 170i. But even before then there were microphones that needed
more than 2 mA apiece at 48 Volts, such as the AKG C 414EB (3 mA if its
circuit was modified for exclusive use at 48 Volts, following some
instructions in the operating manual; otherwise, 5.5 mA "out of the
box") and C 451 (5.5 mA). AKG eventually offered special versions of
these microphones for studios with lower-current 48-Volt supplies--the
C 414EB-P48 and C 452 respectively.

When Neumann improved the circuitry of some of its microphones a few
years ago, their required operating current was increased. The
sensitivity and maximum output voltage of the TLM 193 were increased by
4+ dB but the noise level and maximum SPL were kept the same; this
necessitated an increase in operating current from 2.4 mA to 3 mA. When
the KM 180 series amplifiers were updated, on the other hand, their
equivalent noise level specification was reduced by 3 dB while their
sensitivity and maximum output levels were not changed, but the current
requirement changed from 2.3 mA to 3.2 mA per microphone.

What does it say about us that we find this stuff interesting?


--
ha

You are talking about Lynn Fuston, and yes, he not only has 3D Audio Mic
test CDs, but the 3D Audio Mic Pre CDs available. Worth the price if you
want to hear the difference. Very nice person, and very knowlegeable.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Is our children learning?"
President George W. Bush
"Fran Guidry" wrote in message
oups.com...
One of the posters at the 3db discussion forum did some testing of mic
solutions for his piano recording.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=1335

Apparently he has a CD available.

Fran