I have an a
href="http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/ae531e7972b44137/index.html"Audio-Technica
AT803b/a lavalier mic that I want to use for recording to a small,
bare bones digital audio recorder. Any ideas on what to look at?

I've looked at the M-Audio MicroTrack, Edirol R-1, Marantz PMD660.
They're all really expensive and have lots of features that I really
wouldn't use. Ideally, I want an iPod-sized unit with a mic in, simple
mic preamp, CompactFlash slot, USB interface, record/stop button, 1 or
2 LED indicators, NO LCD, NO on-board mic. I guess I'd consider a
bigger recorder if the money was right.

I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't exist. Can anyone point me
in the right direction of possibly putting one together myself?

Thanks

I'm awaiting delivery of an Olympus WS 320M, which records at 44,100 at
16bit. The "M"in the number is for "music." I assumed since there are
models with the same number without the M that there was something to
it, and it didn't cost any different as I remember.

These units record for over an hour at that rate into a flash card,
making no noise of their own. I think it has a gig of memory. At lower
sampling rates -- there were something like six -- it records up to
like 15 hours. This unit is stereo. They have mono units I didn't look
at. It also has a voice-operated record.

The guys over at the Freesound Project talked about them on their web
site. I thought I'd give it a try. In addition to using it for the
interviews I do, I'll be using it off the mixer to make a "performance
CD" or CDs of rehearsals to give to the little classical group ( six
women's voices ) I accompany on guitar. I have a soprano who swears she
isn't singing parrallel fifths. That's actually what got me started to
find a little recorder.

Radio shack carries some of the Olympus units but I got my best price
on Amazon and with no shipping. Hope that's of some help.....

Ken in Dallas

wrote:
I have an a
&
Ideally, I want an iPod-sized unit with a mic in, simple
mic preamp, CompactFlash slot, USB interface, record/stop button, 1 or
2 LED indicators, NO LCD, NO on-board mic. I guess I'd consider a
bigger recorder if the money was right.

I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't exist. Can anyone point me
in the right direction of possibly putting one together myself?

Thanks


Get a pocket-pc and Luci software
and record mono or stereo, linear
or realtime compressed. FTP your
recording to a studio or take it
home

Take a look at: http://www.lucinl.com

Andre

Andre wrote:

Get a pocket-pc and Luci software
and record mono or stereo, linear
or realtime compressed. FTP your
recording to a studio or take it
home

Don't most PocketPC devices just have an inbuilt mic and a headphone socket?


Take a look at: http://www.lucinl.com

Andre

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=-
Anti-walkthroughs for Deus Ex, Thief and Ultima http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
The DMFA radio series project http://dmfa.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

"Ken in Dallas" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm awaiting delivery of an Olympus WS 320M, which records at 44,100 at
16bit. The "M"in the number is for "music." I assumed since there are
models with the same number without the M that there was something to
it, and it didn't cost any different as I remember.

These units record for over an hour at that rate into a flash card,
making no noise of their own. I think it has a gig of memory. At lower
sampling rates -- there were something like six -- it records up to
like 15 hours. This unit is stereo. They have mono units I didn't look
at. It also has a voice-operated record.

The guys over at the Freesound Project talked about them on their web
site. I thought I'd give it a try. In addition to using it for the
interviews I do, I'll be using it off the mixer to make a "performance
CD" or CDs of rehearsals to give to the little classical group ( six
women's voices ) I accompany on guitar. I have a soprano who swears she
isn't singing parrallel fifths. That's actually what got me started to
find a little recorder.

Radio shack carries some of the Olympus units but I got my best price
on Amazon and with no shipping. Hope that's of some help.....

I'm quite interested in this unit. Can it be used to record music from a
high quality microphone--one that doesn't need phantom power?

Norm Strong

I still think Minidisc is a good option, both for voice or music.

The new HiMD units take a 1G media and can record 1h34 PCM (16bit) or 7h30
compressed (256kbps). This is all on one standard NiMH AA battery! They have
both line (analog, optical) and mic (plug in power) inputs.

Upload to the computer by USB, and convert to WAV format.

There are some really good closeout prices on older models now, eg., NH800
model, approx $130US at minidisc-canada.com.

I don't know how long MD is going to be around, but it sure beats spending
$400 on Microtrack or Edirol. Eventually I will pick up one of these units,
but I'm waiting for the next generation probably.

Richard

The battery life on the MicroTrack is poor especially when supplying
phantom power (~3 hr). If only these darn MiniDisc recorders used mp3
instead of ACTRAC3.... ;/

J. P. Morris wrote:
Andre wrote:

Get a pocket-pc and Luci software
and record mono or stereo, linear
or realtime compressed. FTP your
recording to a studio or take it
home


Don't most PocketPC devices just have an inbuilt mic and a headphone socket?


Take a look at: http://www.lucinl.com

Andre


No, there is a combined 3.5mm jack that has stereo-headphone out
and mono mic in but has only about 60 / 70dB s/n for the mic.
But, as you can find on the website, there are manufactorers who
offer hardware that fits into the compact-flash slot to provide
high quality analog I/O or even S/P-dif
So you could even make stereo, linear, 24bit, 96kHz recordings.

Andre

Andre wrote:

J. P. Morris wrote:
Andre wrote:

Get a pocket-pc and Luci software
and record mono or stereo, linear
or realtime compressed. FTP your
recording to a studio or take it
home

Don't most PocketPC devices just have an inbuilt mic and a headphone
socket?


No, there is a combined 3.5mm jack that has stereo-headphone out
and mono mic in but has only about 60 / 70dB s/n for the mic.

I'm sure that would depend on the manufacturer of the device.

But, as you can find on the website, there are manufactorers who
offer hardware that fits into the compact-flash slot to provide
high quality analog I/O or even S/P-dif
So you could even make stereo, linear, 24bit, 96kHz recordings.

Most PocketPCs don't have CF anymore, either. Although I guess there will
be an SDIO version at some stage.


Andre

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=-
Anti-walkthroughs for Deus Ex, Thief and Ultima http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
The DMFA radio series project http://dmfa.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

I forgot to mention that the Olympus unit has a mic in, headphone out,
USB 2.0, and its files are Microsoft WMA (Windows Media Audio). It's
only 100 to 15,000 Hz though.

All the specs say is "mic jack." and that the "input level" is -70 dBv

It has pluses and minuses. I decided to buy it.It was like $185 US
which was
actually lower than the Olympus estimated street price.

The Olympus URL with all the specs is:

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...duct=1195&fl=4

I'm due to get mine this week in the mail. I'll let you know what I
think, but like
I said, the field-recording people on Freesound are saying they're
using these
units with success. They seem to be into a good project by the way.
They're putting together copyright free sounds for people in research
and other areas who need them and can't easily get them cause they're
not recording people. I enjoy reading their site.

Again.....

Ken in Dallas

J. P. Morris wrote:

Most PocketPCs don't have CF anymore, either. Although I guess there will
be an SDIO version at some stage.

So another flash memory format heads toward biting the dust? What are
all those people who defend flash memory card recorders (most of which
do still use CF cards) going to do when the inevitable happens sooner
than they expected?

J. P. Morris wrote:

Most PocketPCs don't have CF anymore, either. Although I guess there will
be an SDIO version at some stage.

So another flash memory format heads toward biting the dust? What are
all those people who defend flash memory card recorders (most of which
do still use CF cards) going to do when the inevitable happens sooner
than they expected?

If your quality requirements are not too high, some I-river MP3 players
include a recorder function.

Fran

I'm sure that would depend on the manufacturer of the device.

Yes, it really does. Some can even give you an 82 dB SNR at
-40dBu Full Scale sensitivity. But others already cut-off at 8 KHz !
Talk about misleading advertising: 44.1 KHz sample-rate, yeah right.
On the output maybe...
Anyway, XDA type PocketPC's and Toshiba E800 are already uses
by professional broadcasting companies.
see more he http://www.lucinl.com/en/pages/PocketPCs.html

Joost

But, as you can find on the website, there are manufactorers who
offer hardware that fits into the compact-flash slot to provide
high quality analog I/O or even S/P-dif
So you could even make stereo, linear, 24bit, 96kHz recordings.

Most PocketPCs don't have CF anymore, either. Although I guess there will
be an SDIO version at some stage.


Andre

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=-
Anti-walkthroughs for Deus Ex, Thief and Ultima http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
The DMFA radio series project http://dmfa.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

Perhaps this will be of interest to some here. :-)
http://live2496.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21

This is a package I put together for a court reporter. It uses the same
software we use in the pdaudio setup.

Recording to the 2gb SD chip and when setup for 22kHz, it can record
continuously for over 12 hours.

You can upgrade it to an SP/DIF digital ready system by purchasing the
Core Sound PDAudio-CF. (But you need a battery powered mic pre like
Mic2496 and suitable mics to feed it)

BTW, a good number of pda's still provide both a CF and SD slot.

For this setup, I had to use an older pda. Not many models support
recording from an external mic. The H5100/H5500 series do.

Gordon

wrote:
I have an a
href="http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/ae531e7972b44137/index.html"Audio-Technica
AT803b/a lavalier mic that I want to use for recording to a small,
bare bones digital audio recorder. Any ideas on what to look at?

I've looked at the M-Audio MicroTrack, Edirol R-1, Marantz PMD660.
They're all really expensive and have lots of features that I really
wouldn't use. Ideally, I want an iPod-sized unit with a mic in, simple
mic preamp, CompactFlash slot, USB interface, record/stop button, 1 or
2 LED indicators, NO LCD, NO on-board mic. I guess I'd consider a
bigger recorder if the money was right.

I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't exist. Can anyone point me
in the right direction of possibly putting one together myself?

Thanks

wrote:
I have an a
href="http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/ae531e7972b44137/index.html"Audio-Technica
AT803b/a lavalier mic that I want to use for recording to a small,
bare bones digital audio recorder. Any ideas on what to look at?

I've looked at the M-Audio MicroTrack, Edirol R-1, Marantz PMD660.
They're all really expensive and have lots of features that I really
wouldn't use. Ideally, I want an iPod-sized unit with a mic in, simple
mic preamp, CompactFlash slot, USB interface, record/stop button, 1 or
2 LED indicators, NO LCD, NO on-board mic. I guess I'd consider a
bigger recorder if the money was right.

I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't exist. Can anyone point me
in the right direction of possibly putting one together myself?

Thanks

You're right, this thing does not exist. The reason is that any
manufacturer would get burned trying to market it.

You can of course put one together yourself, but it would be very
difficult. You would need to design it around a small ARM-based board.
Choose an existing ARM core with peripheral CF and USB interfaces, of
course. However, the parts for your prototype would be fairly
expensive ($1000), since you're not buying in bulk.

A much more reasonable solution would be something many videographers
already use with great success, namely an iRiver iFP-7xx or iFP-8xx
flash recorder. You can get them for under $100, but they're very hard
to find new. They're tiny, easy to use, and provide surprisingly good
performance. You can easily transfer your recordings to OS X or
Windows.

The Thomson Lyra PDP27G1X has a Line-in, 1 gb internal memory and a slot for
a memory card (max 500 mb)
Easy to find, around 130 euro. it records only in mp3 however!


Diego



ha scritto nel messaggio
oups.com...

wrote:
I have an a
href="http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/ae531e7972b44137/index.html"Audio-Technica
AT803b/a lavalier mic that I want to use for recording to a small,
bare bones digital audio recorder. Any ideas on what to look at?

I've looked at the M-Audio MicroTrack, Edirol R-1, Marantz PMD660.
They're all really expensive and have lots of features that I really
wouldn't use. Ideally, I want an iPod-sized unit with a mic in, simple
mic preamp, CompactFlash slot, USB interface, record/stop button, 1 or
2 LED indicators, NO LCD, NO on-board mic. I guess I'd consider a
bigger recorder if the money was right.

I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't exist. Can anyone point me
in the right direction of possibly putting one together myself?

Thanks

You're right, this thing does not exist. The reason is that any
manufacturer would get burned trying to market it.

You can of course put one together yourself, but it would be very
difficult. You would need to design it around a small ARM-based board.
Choose an existing ARM core with peripheral CF and USB interfaces, of
course. However, the parts for your prototype would be fairly
expensive ($1000), since you're not buying in bulk.

A much more reasonable solution would be something many videographers
already use with great success, namely an iRiver iFP-7xx or iFP-8xx
flash recorder. You can get them for under $100, but they're very hard
to find new. They're tiny, easy to use, and provide surprisingly good
performance. You can easily transfer your recordings to OS X or
Windows.

sly.psi wrote ...
The battery life on the MicroTrack is poor especially when
supplying phantom power (~3 hr). If only these darn MiniDisc
recorders used mp3 instead of ACTRAC3.... ;/

But none of those "darn MiniDisc recorders" do ANY
kind of phantom power.

Mike Rivers wrote:
J. P. Morris wrote:


Most PocketPCs don't have CF anymore, either. Although I guess there will
be an SDIO version at some stage.

So another flash memory format heads toward biting the dust? What are
all those people who defend flash memory card recorders (most of which
do still use CF cards) going to do when the inevitable happens sooner
than they expected?

I hope not.. I rather like CF, since it's armoured and more difficult to lose
than SD.

Now CE devices (industrial, non-pocketpc devices) still seem to have CF as
standard, although it has fallen out of favour for consumer devices for some
reason. All the SD barcode readers I've seen are ****.. the decent ones are
either built-in or CF cards.

In the worst case, some bright spark will probably come up with CF-SD
converter of some kind.

(Programming CE devices is my day job)

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=-
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

"Ken in Dallas" wrote in message
oups.com...
I forgot to mention that the Olympus unit has a mic in, headphone out,
USB 2.0, and its files are Microsoft WMA (Windows Media Audio). It's
only 100 to 15,000 Hz though.

Is this frequency response through the entire system, including the built-in
mikes? I wonder why there is such a restriction on the low frequency
performance. If one were to supply a signal to the mike input with no
bandwidth constriction, would it still be limited to 100Hz?

Norm Strong

Okay.... The little Olympus WS-320M came in the mail today, and I've
read the instruction book and made a few recordings. Now I understand
some of the missing pieces in the stats on their web site. If I'm
getting it right, the words on the web site and in the book were
written by someone for whom English is a second language.

The "M" in the model number is for the unit's ability to act as an
I-pod. You can transfer songs via USB into its memory and listen to
them. Not my thing but it can do it.

The unit seems to record full frequency from 20 to 20K Hz. It's only
the on-board mic that's limited to 100 to 15K Hz. Feed from the mixer
seems to be arriving and recording full frequency 20 to 20.

I was wrong on the max recording time. At 44,100 and 16 bit depth it
records a little over 13 hours on one AAA.

Pitch is rock stable. The 1 gig flash card doesn't come out of the
unit. It connects via USB. It came with a double ended USB cable I
haven't figured out where to use yet. The unit pops open like an I pod
with its own USB inside the base. I would not be at all surprised if
whoever makes the board in China is marketing it to a number of
companies, each of which is creating a product using different things
the board can do. This thing really feels like my wife's I pod.

The on-board mics are on both sides of the top of the unit marked L and
R and are ported front, back, out to the sides, and up. It's very
omnidirectional in pattern, though the on-board is limited to the 15K
as I mentioned. The little speaker is tinny sounding as would be
expected.

The unit isn't intuitive, ergonomic, or substantial feeling. It isn't
pro-audio equipment. That all made me read the instructions before
using it. I don't do things like that.

The mic and phone jacks are little 3.5 things that have broken on a
million things I have owned. I'm going to make some kind of docking
station to leave it in so I can use professional ( read substantial )
connectors to use it.

To sum.... It's better than their site said, but it's scary small and
delicate. Between this and my other two postings while I was waiting
for it, I think everything's said. I like it, the Freesound guys like
it. So far, $185 to the better.

Hope writing this helps someone..........

Ken in Dallas

Thanks for the info.

Ken in Dallas wrote:

I was wrong on the max recording time. At 44,100 and 16 bit depth it
records a little over 13 hours on one AAA.

That implies data compression. What options are offered?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

Yes. I didn't go into the other modes as they're of little interest to
me -- sorry. The booklet says:

Stereo 44,100 100 to 15K 13+hours
Mono 44,100 100 to 12K 70+hours
"SP" 12,000 100 to 5K 139hours
"LP" 8,000 100 to 3 277hours

Again, it isn't pro-audio gear, it's just a voice recorder that comes
close to commercial CD quality but weighs only 46g including battery. I
think an ounce is like 35g. That's why the feel of it in the hand is
odd to me. When I'm being paid to record something that there are no
retakes on, I want solid feeling equipment. I guess I'll always want to
see the reels going round too. Well....I've become an old man crying in
his beer over the "old days." Bury me with my splicing block!

Again,

Ken in Dallas

It's not even in the same universe as "commercial" CD quality. The
limited frequency response notwithstanding (most portable cassette
players could do better) - the data compression artifacts are
horrendous. 1GB allows just over 90 minutes of CD quality sound, and
that's making a huge assumption on the quality of the analog support
circuitry. Looking at the garbage recently released, this assumption
seldom applies. Digital is easy these days, the challenge has always
been analog. Analog circuitry = crap, sound quality = crap.

Oh yeah, my Microtrack doesn't perform one iota better than the MZ-RH10
HiMD recorder. In fact, it's worse in many areas: Design, analog
quality, S/N, battery options, reliability, assembly quality... And
don't bother bringing up "phantom power" - useless. If you're serious,
all that stuff is done outboard from the actual recorder.

Cheers

Ken in Dallas wrote:
Yes. I didn't go into the other modes as they're of little interest to
me -- sorry. The booklet says:

Stereo 44,100 100 to 15K 13+hours
Mono 44,100 100 to 12K 70+hours
"SP" 12,000 100 to 5K 139hours
"LP" 8,000 100 to 3 277hours

Does it say what bit rate (assuming MP3) is used to get each of the
standard, SP and LP modes? Doesn't sound like there is an uncompressed
mode available, correct?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

It doesn't record MP3. It can store and play that file format, but
won't create its own MP3 via the mic.

The manual says all modes are WMA file format. I went over the book and
web site again and can't find the bit rate in their written material. I
may have gotten the 16 bit rate while looking up the WMA specs. To make
sure, I took a recording I made on the unit and checked its properties.
I get bit rate as 64kbps, audio sample size 16 bit, audio sample rate
as 44kHz, and 2 channel stereo.

I think you're right about some type of compression in all formats. I
mean I wouldn't normally hand the unit's product to a client, but it
does seem to meet the "need statement" from the first poster to this
thread.

Another reason I bought it is because I still use a Sony ECM 939LT
stereo mic with its stereo imager/bypass filters and a Sony MX 10,
four-channel stereo mixer. These units are so small that I keep them in
a pocket inside my parka when recording in Arctic conditions. Over the
last 30 years, the recorder has always been my weak link in this
system. I now have a recorder even smaller scaled than the Sony stuff
with no moving parts to freeze that will fit in the same pocket --
something the old recorder did not do. I'll also use it for post-mortem
feedback for musicians by connecting it to the sound-reinforcement
mixing board and giving them a quick CD to take home and think about.
More musicians should think about what they do, no?

Gotta keep working.... bye

Ken in Dallas

Well 64kbps WMA is just about enough for voice, that's all. For
comparison, CD is about 1.4Mbps. The iRiver iFP series flash recorders
encode up to 320kbps mp3 and could even be used for music recording
with decent results.

There is no way you can have uncompressed recordings on these low
memory voice recorders, stereo or not. You'd need at least 1GB for
decent recording times (90 minutes CD quality). The older iRivers are
a great compromise: 320kbps 44.1kHz 16bit stereo with up to 1GB of
flash memory. Perfect for lavaliers (they have a nice mic inputs).

See Best Seller sound recorder Software at
http://www.best-seller-reviews.com/soundrecorder/
http://www.best-seller-reviews.com/soundrecorder/