I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major stumbling
block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels and lacking in sonic
clarity. I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel. Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song? Help!
I use Sound Forge 6.0 and Izotope Ozone for mastering-related
processing, but the challenge I'm faced with here is that I want most
of the songs to sound the same.

DJ David Wilson wrote:
I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major stumbling
block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels and lacking in sonic
clarity. I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel. Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song? Help!

No. There isn't any way around it. You're going to have to actually
listen and adjust. There is no shortcut around using your ears.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
DJ David Wilson wrote:
I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major stumbling
block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels and lacking in sonic
clarity. I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel. Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song? Help!

No. There isn't any way around it. You're going to have to actually
listen and adjust. There is no shortcut around using your ears.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott, you'll have to forgive him - he's a "DJ".



Mikey
Nova Music Productions

DJ David Wilson wrote:
I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major stumbling
block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels and lacking in sonic
clarity. I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel. Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song?

Samplitude's Comparisonics function will sort of do this, but you're
still going to need some quality time with a quality monitoring system
in order to make anything resembling production-ready tracks.

On 26 Dec 2005 07:26:19 -0800, "DJ David Wilson"
wrote:

I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel.

You may look at the Harmonic Balancer, www.har-bal.com

HTH
Norbert

Norbert Hahn wrote:

You may look at the Harmonic Balancer, www.har-bal.com

I checked it out. Seems like the right product I'm looking for.
Judging from the forums the product is very good but not very
well-known.

I realize there is no substitution for a good set of ears, but then
again I really don't know what I should or should not do. I don't want
to over-process any of the files either. Yeah, it's kind of hard
putting into words the lack of sonic clarity present in certain
bootlegs and whitelabels, especially if you couple that with the fact
that they were compressed into mp3 format.

Maybe the following is a better question: Are there certain sonic
features that can result in either a faulty or bad mp3 compression
scenario? What would be the best way to compensate for this - besides
by using the Harmonic Balancer?

I'm just really wondering if any of the plug-ins I have from either
Sound Forge 6.0, Acid Pro 4.0, Cakewalk Kinetic, or Izotope could be
used to accomplish this simple feat. I realize the question may seem
amateurish, but I'm having trouble describing the lack of quality. I
think the best way to sum it up is that the bootlegs/whitelabels/mp3's
I have received are lacking in a certain fullness which is present in
the track. It's as if the details are alright, but the overall sound
produced by the tracks are bad, and noticeable.

Thanks again for any input.

David Wilson

On 28 Dec 2005 19:58:06 -0800, "DJ David Wilson"
wrote:

I realize there is no substitution for a good set of ears, but then
again I really don't know what I should or should not do. I don't want
to over-process any of the files either. Yeah, it's kind of hard
putting into words the lack of sonic clarity present in certain
bootlegs and whitelabels, especially if you couple that with the fact
that they were compressed into mp3 format.

MP3 may reduce the clarity a little but I wouldn't worry about that.
The compression removes some information that is barely audible,
but it does not change the frequency response. And it introduces
some artefacts. Just take a good recording, convert it to mp3 with
the same bitrate that the bootlegs have, and listen to it.

Maybe the following is a better question: Are there certain sonic
features that can result in either a faulty or bad mp3 compression
scenario? What would be the best way to compensate for this - besides
by using the Harmonic Balancer?

I'm afraid that anything a mp3 compression does to the recording
cannot be compensated later. Most likely the problems you have
are with placement of the mics and with the room acoustics.

I'm just really wondering if any of the plug-ins I have from either
Sound Forge 6.0, Acid Pro 4.0, Cakewalk Kinetic, or Izotope could be
used to accomplish this simple feat. I realize the question may seem
amateurish, but I'm having trouble describing the lack of quality.

You may download the free trial version of Audtition 1.5 from Adobe's
site and experiment with room effects. You'll find the in the menu at
Effects - Delay Effects - Echo Chamber (the first I'd look for) and
.... - ... - Multitap Delays.

All effects come with lots of presets as a starter. Basically the Echo
Chamber simulates a stage with a pair of speakers which you can
position in the room and a pair of microphone which you can as well
move around the the room. You can set the dimensions of the room
and thusly simulate the situation of the bootleg recordings. You can
apply damping of the room to care for absorption by the audience
etc.

Apply that to the good recordings and see if you could obtain the
"damage" you need. You may as well save the processed file as MP3.

Audition comes along with a rich set of filters for frequency response
manipulations, such as graphic EQ, parametric EQ, FFT based EQ,
frequency filtering by scientific filters - but I'm afraid the bootleg
recordings suffer in more than what these filters can correct.
A bad recording situation can be simulated by not corrected.

Norbert

I
think the best way to sum it up is that the bootlegs/whitelabels/mp3's
I have received are lacking in a certain fullness which is present in
the track. It's as if the details are alright, but the overall sound
produced by the tracks are bad, and noticeable.

Thanks again for any input.

David Wilson

"DJ David Wilson" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major stumbling
block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels and lacking in sonic
clarity. I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great, but
others don't - I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel. Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song? Help!
I use Sound Forge 6.0 and Izotope Ozone for mastering-related
processing, but the challenge I'm faced with here is that I want most
of the songs to sound the same.

If you're playing this at a club, just level the volume for each track.
I'm fairly sure the people bouncing around (and most likely drugged
up) on the dance floor won't notice (or care about) the quality.

DJ David Wilson wrote:

I am putting together a mixed cd but have run into a major
stumbling block: some of the songs are bootlegs/whitelabels
and lacking in sonic clarity.

Just what do you mean when you say sonic clarity? - sonic clarity in my
world is obtained by matching say Hornung & Moeller, Stradivarius and a
good room with some good operators. After that, more and more of it gets
lost the more stages there are in the recording and reproduction chain,
of course also depending on the quality of said stages.

I would like the entire mixed cd to have the same overall
sound. What this means is that some songs on the cd sound great,
but others don't

What do you mean when you say "sound great", some songs NEED to have too
much or too little of something to sound great in accordance with the
guy who was artistically responsible for them. You becasue you CAN
change the sound of something does not also imply that it is
artistically correct to so do.

- I would like all of my songs to have a similar overall
sonic feel.

Back when I compiled a set of "party tapes" I took great care to match
songs according to their feel and according to what I thought would be
relevant for the party based on time.

Is there a program out there which would allow me to model
mastering presets based on the sonic features found in one song?

As you ask the question no, Magix Music Studio does have a function that
claims to be able to so do but in my understanding it does something
slightly different: analyzes example sound for "aberrations" and apply
those to sound to process. It is only half the way.

I use Sound Forge 6.0 and Izotope Ozone for mastering-related
processing, but the challenge I'm faced with here is that I want most
of the songs to sound the same.

It should be easy to obtain and you need only to violate the droit
morale of one song to so do:

Process any one song so that the immense 8 dB dynamic range is reduced
to a more manageable 4 dB dynamic range, remember to boost bass, mid and
treble separately in a multiband processor, and then add some bass, mid
and treble for good measure. Please be aware that music with a 4 dB
dynamic range voids the asumptions made in the power handling specs of
most loudspeakers and is EXTREMELY EFFICIENT at rapidly causing major
hearing damage.

That multiband processing will mostly already have been used is btw. why
you can not expect to be able to match sonic characteristics just by
analyzing frequency content.

Match the songs instead, I thought that was what disk jockeying is all
about.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

DJ David Wilson wrote:

Maybe the following is a better question: Are there certain sonic
features that can result in either a faulty or bad mp3 compression
scenario?

Yes. It is my experience that having less than 1.5 dB headroom will
cause mp3 processing to result in a clipped file.

Encoding with a bit rate lower than 192 kbits per second will result in
a sound dulling very much like the one of a compact casette.

What would be the best way to compensate for this

Lower the level by 2 dB prior to mp3 encoding. Redithering may be wise.

A fix - not a cure, a fix - is digital unclipping wisely applied.

A proactive step is to get the CDs over the counter instead of from "one
of the possible sources" for music that is available only as mp3. It is
a copyright violation to distribute a recording without consent, and by
definition bootlegs do not come with consent, nor with royalty payment.

David Wilson


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************