"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:10:17 GMT, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

When you listened to this amp, what was it about the sound that made
you think that is was awful? And what speakers did you use when you
auditioned it?

I have not auditioned it and never will, I already know what distortion
sounds like and I want no more of it.


"At least" Arny sometimes listens to a sound file through some other
piece of inferior audio equipment!!

Are you seriously trying get me to beleive that double digit distortion is
not audible, or that an ABX comparison of the WAVAC is even necessary to
know that it sounds different from other amps?

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:03:37 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Yes, when the difference is obvious, as has been stated countless
times.

Way to go, sport!

Idiot.

"dizzy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:03:37 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Yes, when the difference is obvious, as has been stated countless
times.


Yes, even between ss amps with very similar 'specs'.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"dizzy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:03:37 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than
the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Yes, when the difference is obvious, as has been stated countless
times.


Yes, even between ss amps with very similar 'specs'.

Deoends on how similar.

dippyborg whined:

Idiot.

Bicycle grease.

Idiot.

Bicycle grease.

Idiot.

Bicycle grease.

Idiot.

Bicycle grease.



..
..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:23:25 GMT, dizzy wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:03:37 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Yes, when the difference is obvious, as has been stated countless
times.

Unproven until a dbt is done, according to guys like you. If your
posit is true, then why not "prove" it? If it's so obvious, then it
should also be obvious in a dbt or abx. If Mike didn't do a dbt, then
it's obvious that he was "peeking". Whatever happened to the sighted
bias that you guys are always foaming at the mouth about?

Since he's obviously biased (pun intended) against tube amps, it's
unclear whether or not bias might not be the controlling factor.

Way to go, sport!

Idiot.

My my, such a mouth. No wonder you call yourself dizzy.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:23:25 GMT, dizzy wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:03:37 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than
the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Yes, when the difference is obvious, as has been stated countless
times.

Unproven until a dbt is done, according to guys like you.

Why keep repeating the same lie? It has been stated repeatedly, that DBTs
are for subtle differences.

If your
posit is true, then why not "prove" it? If it's so obvious, then it
should also be obvious in a dbt or abx.

Exactly although it still would be unneccessary since the differences are
practically off the chart.

If Mike didn't do a dbt, then
it's obvious that he was "peeking". Whatever happened to the sighted
bias that you guys are always foaming at the mouth about?


As is the case with speakers, differences between the WAVAC and any decent
amp are obvious and a DBT would be completely redundant.

Since he's obviously biased (pun intended) against tube amps, it's
unclear whether or not bias might not be the controlling factor.

Not all tube amps, there are some that can be quite nice. SET's are not
among them.


Way to go, sport!

Idiot.

Liar is more accurate.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:27:25 GMT, wrote:

Since he's obviously biased (pun intended) against tube amps, it's
unclear whether or not bias might not be the controlling factor.

Not all tube amps, there are some that can be quite nice. SET's are not
among them.

That's not what you said earlier. You said ALL tube amps sounded worse
than every SS amp you had ever heard. So the amp could sound WORSE but
"quite nice". Interesting. So you agree that tube amps don't have to
"measure" better to sound nice.

Looks like you're making progress.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:27:25 GMT, wrote:

Since he's obviously biased (pun intended) against tube amps, it's
unclear whether or not bias might not be the controlling factor.

Not all tube amps, there are some that can be quite nice. SET's are not
among them.

That's not what you said earlier. You said ALL tube amps sounded worse
than every SS amp you had ever heard.
So the amp could sound WORSE but
"quite nice".

As in less accurate.

Interesting. So you agree that tube amps don't have to
"measure" better to sound nice.

Nice is not always the same as accurate. I don't begrudge people likeing
tube amps, only when they say they are better in some technical kind of way.

Looks like you're making progress.

Nothing has changed.

"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

Way to lie ****head!

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:22:36 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

Way to lie ****head!

So now you're saying that you DO need dbts to compare the WAVAC with
SS amps?

You seem a bit addled at this point. You should probably go to bed.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:22:36 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:57:10 GMT, wrote:

Considering your inability to get even the most basic facts correct
about the thing, YES, I have my doubts that a: the distortion is not
audible to you and b: you might not find it any different than a
Yamaha amp.

I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than
the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

Way to lie ****head!

So now you're saying that you DO need dbts to compare the WAVAC with
SS amps?

You seem a bit addled at this point. You should probably go to bed.


I should probably not discus things with someone who has such a hard time
keeping up.

Amps ar any gear that measures like the WAVAC need not be compared via DBT,
since the differences are so glaringly obvious.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:18:16 GMT, wrote:

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

Way to lie ****head!

So now you're saying that you DO need dbts to compare the WAVAC with
SS amps?

You seem a bit addled at this point. You should probably go to bed.


I should probably not discus things with someone who has such a hard time
keeping up.

Amps ar any gear that measures like the WAVAC need not be compared via DBT,
since the differences are so glaringly obvious.

It was YOU who claimed that I was "lying" when I said, "But you didn't
do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed the need the
(sic) dbts".

If I was lying, then you must be advocating the use of dbts for the
WAVAC.

Boy, are you addled. Maybe you need to check your patch and see if
it's past its expiration date.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:18:16 GMT, wrote:

But you didn't do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed
the need the dbts.

Way to go, sport!

Way to lie ****head!

So now you're saying that you DO need dbts to compare the WAVAC with
SS amps?

You seem a bit addled at this point. You should probably go to bed.


I should probably not discus things with someone who has such a hard time
keeping up.

Amps ar any gear that measures like the WAVAC need not be compared via
DBT,
since the differences are so glaringly obvious.

It was YOU who claimed that I was "lying" when I said, "But you didn't
do DBTs. Once again, you've now conclusively dismissed the need the
(sic) dbts".

Since I never dismissed the need for DBT's it is a lie to say I have. DBT's
are for subtle differences, not glaringly obvious ones such as the WAVAC
has.


If I was lying, then you must be advocating the use of dbts for the
WAVAC.

No subtle differences in the WAVAC when compared to any competently designed
amp.


Boy, are you addled. Maybe you need to check your patch and see if
it's past its expiration date.

Maybe you better seek help for your reading comprehension problem.

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than
the WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.




Of those, I haven't heard JAdis and AR (unless you mena ARC).
The Dynaco enerally sounds worse than SS.
The others are preferrable to the best SS I heard
One ss exception was a Muse which sounded quite good.

wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.

That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or Shindo, or
deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or Audiopax? Never heard of them?
Big surprise.

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house and hear a 2wpc
SET with a pair of 101dB efficient speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.
That way, when you say you don't like it, you can at least a point of
reference, instead of talking out of your ass again.

Boon

said:

Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.


That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or Shindo, or
deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or Audiopax? Never heard of them?
Big surprise.


I would hesitate to call a CJ Premier IV or a Jadis JA30 crap.

Bet you never heard of Pegasus Audio, huh? :-)

Welcome back, BTW!

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

After listening to many, many SETs, I can honestly say that C-J sounds
like solid state to me now.

And a Jadis isn't crap. But it is overpriced. Never heard of Pegasus
Audio, though. But Mikey says I don't have to listen to it because I
should know what distortion sounds like.

Nice to see you, though, Sander!

Boon

In .com,
wrote :


And a Jadis isn't crap. But it is overpriced. Never heard of Pegasus
Audio, though.

LOL, predictable retractation from our self-proclamed "high-end connoiseur"
since he has in front of him a guy who knows a lot more than him on the
subject.

Conclusion ?
Audio added value of our audio-braggart's intervention is reduced to zero
But what's new around here ?


--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

said:


After listening to many, many SETs, I can honestly say that C-J sounds
like solid state to me now.


Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you will note.
However, they can benefit from some tweaks here and there.


And a Jadis isn't crap. But it is overpriced. Never heard of Pegasus
Audio, though. But Mikey says I don't have to listen to it because I
should know what distortion sounds like.


Pegasus Audio is the fancy name that my humble products bear.
We might have a PC-ABX shootout in the near future between one of my
amps and (hopefully) Mike's Acoustat.
The output stage uses similar devices, just my driver circuit is
different (with E288CC tubes), and it is biased in class A when an 8
ohms load is used.


Nice to see you, though, Sander!


Likewise, and stay a little longer this time!

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

wrote :


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.

That's all crap.


LOL, typical bull**** answer from a self-proclamed snobbish high-end
connoisseur.
Everything I don't like or I don't know is crap... Moreover if the
suggestion comes from McKelvy.


How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or Shindo, or
deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or Audiopax? Never heard of them?
Big surprise.

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house and hear a 2wpc
SET with a pair of 101dB efficient speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.
That way, when you say you don't like it, you can at least a point of
reference, instead of talking out of your ass again.

Boon

Since your ass have taken the place of your mind a long time ago I'm not
sure your advice has any sens. :-)


--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

Marc said:

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house and hear a 2wpc
SET with a pair of 101dB efficient speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.

The Spendors are that sensitive? Who knew.

That way, when you say you don't like it, you can at least a point of
reference, instead of talking out of your ass again.

Where ya been, Boon? BTW, Mickey has gone off the deep end. He's just
admitted he buys his gear by reading spec sheets. It's as if the 'borg
bunny told him "Auditions are for Normals" and he swallowed it whole.

Would I sound a lot like Howard if I said I had a bunch of gear in for
review?

Boon

wrote in message
oups.com


That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or
Shindo, or deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or
Audiopax? Never heard of them? Big surprise.

Some people design amplifiers, others design names for
amplifiers.

Guess which ones impress Marc the most?

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house
and hear a 2 wpc SET with a pair of 101dB efficient
speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.

A 200 wpc SS amp driving 91 dB/watt speakers will get 10 dB
louder and can as clean if not cleaner.

None of that made any sense, you ****in' spaz.

Boon

Marc Philips, wrote :

None of that made any sense, you ****in' spaz.

;-)

--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

wrote in message
oups.com

None of that made any sense, you ****in' spaz.

Well Marc, that was because it was way over your pointed
little head. Too bad you made the mistake of coming back to
RAO before you bought, stole, or were given your first
clue.

wrote in message
oups.com...
None of that made any sense, you ****in' spaz.

Boon

Of course not it was about aduio, not big budget brand named distortion.

You know **** about hi-fi.

wrote:
None of that made any sense, you ****in' spaz.

Boon


Wow, such a firecracker.


Fortunately my killfile is can contain you, too.



--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

In , Arny Krueger wrote :

wrote in message
oups.com


That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or
Shindo, or deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or
Audiopax? Never heard of them? Big surprise.

Some people design amplifiers, others design names for
amplifiers.

Guess which ones impress Marc the most?


LOL !

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Arny Krueger wrote :

wrote in message
oups.com


That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or
Shindo, or deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or
Audiopax? Never heard of them? Big surprise.

Some people design amplifiers, others design names for
amplifiers.

Guess which ones impress Marc the most?


LOL !

ARny was part of a two person design team at Chrysler.
He designed the ashtrays, and the other person designed
names for them. Arny is just envious because the name
designer was paid $2 more per hour.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than
the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.

That's all crap. How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or Shindo, or
deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or Audiopax? Never heard of them?
Big surprise.

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house and hear a 2wpc
SET with a pair of 101dB efficient speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.
That way, when you say you don't like it, you can at least a point of
reference, instead of talking out of your ass again.

Why the hell would I want to loose the last 10 Hz of response, played
through a distortion generator?

Talking out of your ass is what you seem best at. You have no idea based on
what you playing your music on, what the stuff should sound like, especially
since you have gone out of your way to **** it up beyond recognition. Keep
your **** stereo, I prefer and get, hi-fidelity.

Wow, Mikey, you sound lost, utterly lost.

Does your wife still talk to you, or are you like Arny?

Boon

Marc "Limp Turd" Phillips wrote :

Boon

Agree with Sander, please stay a little bit longer this time.
You are my prefered punching ball. ;-)



--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

wrote in message
ups.com
Wow, Mikey, you sound lost, utterly lost.

Does your wife still talk to you, or are you like Arny?

BTW Boon, did your second wife divorce you yet?

wrote:

wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...


I got the price wrong, the rest of the information is correct.
I have listened to tube amps before, all of them measured better than the
WAVAC.
All of them sounded worse that any SS amp I've ever heard..


Which tube amps have you lstenend to?
Conrad Johnson, AR, Dynaco, Hafler, VTL, Jadis, Cary, Jolida, and a few
others.

That's all crap.

LOL. Of *course* they are. (it is ever thus, isn't it? Whatever
the other guy has heard, is CRAP)

How about Yamamoto Sound Craft, or Shindo, or
deHavilland, or Komura, or Melody, or Audiopax? Never heard of them?
Big surprise.

Tell you what, Mikey...you can come on over to my house and hear a 2wpc
SET with a pair of 101dB efficient speakers that go flat down to 35hZ.
That way, when you say you don't like it, you can at least a point of
reference, instead of talking out of your ass again.

Just a heads up to audiophiles: Jolida, Cary, Jadis -- they simply
don't rate. You have been warned.




--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

Steven Sullivan said:

Just a heads up to audiophiles: Jolida, Cary, Jadis -- they simply
don't rate. You have been warned.


Build-quality wise, most Jolidas I've seen *are* crap.
According to Patrick Turner, who knows a thing or two about output
transformers, the Jolida OPTs are not worth considering.
I can't say anything meaningful about the sound because I've never
heard one for a longer period of time with familiar speakers.

Most SE Carys are prime examples of bad engineering (meaning
disregarding the basic principles of tube engineering).
The few Carys I *have* heard though (strangely enough, they were all
push pull amps) sounded very good to these ears.

I must add that I'm absolutely no fan of SE amps, and not only because
my speakers of choice won't come alive with them.

Older Jadis' are beautifully made, with top class materials.
Again to my ears, they sound very good.

The few samples I've seen from newer production, were built to a
lesser standard IMO.

ARC is a horror to repair, and don't add anything special to the sound
IMO.

I've no experience with VTL, not many to be found here in Europe.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005