Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a guitar mart
counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

On 9/7/05 9:43 AM, in article
, "apa"
wrote:

Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a guitar mart
counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."


Heck... Any good set of earplugs'll get you the sound of 0db
....ummm.. Actually what the heck IS a "db"?
Only thing that comes to mind is 2/3rds of the dbx logo....

"SSJVCmag" wrote in message

On 9/7/05 9:43 AM, in article
,
"apa" wrote:

Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a
guitar mart counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm
[headphones] is to tell what 0 dB really sounds like.
Sometimes you can't really tell with the 55 ohm ones."


Heck... Any good set of earplugs'll get you the sound of
0db ...ummm.. Actually what the heck IS a "db"?
Only thing that comes to mind is 2/3rds of the dbx
logo....

or which zero dB?

0 dB FS or 0 dB SPL?

Maybe 0dB as silence.... (???)
With 55ohm headphones you hear hiss.... (or you can turn the amp off!!)
hehehe
F.


"Arny Krueger" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
"SSJVCmag" wrote in message

On 9/7/05 9:43 AM, in article
,
"apa" wrote:

Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a
guitar mart counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm
[headphones] is to tell what 0 dB really sounds like.
Sometimes you can't really tell with the 55 ohm ones."


Heck... Any good set of earplugs'll get you the sound of
0db ...ummm.. Actually what the heck IS a "db"?
Only thing that comes to mind is 2/3rds of the dbx
logo....

or which zero dB?

0 dB FS or 0 dB SPL?

A dB is a tenth of a unit called a Bel named after - guess who? But a whole
Bel is too large and clumsy a unit to handle. It is not absolute in size but
is measured relative to another known level and so its linear range actually
behaves
logarithmically to the ratio (+/-) of a new level and a former level.
1dB is usually accepted as the lowest possible up or down, increment, in
voltage
terms, from a transducer at a mid frequency that can be discerned by human
ear.
Other dBs can be power ratios.

Share this with that counter chap (at least he tried.... to show how to
uphold integrity of, or how to cause a loading effect on, the signal): 0 dB
is only a quotable reference level (at a known line-up freq, of so many rms
volts or millivolts, and at a known impedance) which can be max allowed, or
can be 8 or 10 or 14dB below max - each according to the engineering
institution involved.
The few measurable, fixed standards I know of are 0dBm, 0dBm0, 0dBV, etc.

"apa" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a guitar mart
counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

apa wrote:
a quote from a guitar mart counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

The only way you can hear what 0 dB (SPL) sounds like is to get a tube
preamp, open one of of the vacuum tubes, and get inside.

First show him the sound of one hand clapping.

Then show him half a peace sign.

malachi

"apa" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a guitar mart
counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

Mike, a practical solid-state alternative for listening to 0 dB is to
use a short circuit. But the problem then, of course, is that it is so
short that you have to listen rather quickly.

--best regards

On 7 Sep 2005 09:07:12 -0700, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:


apa wrote:
a quote from a guitar mart counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

The only way you can hear what 0 dB (SPL) sounds like is to get a tube
preamp, open one of of the vacuum tubes, and get inside.

In space, no one can hear you clip.

"apa" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pardon, but I felt compelled share this - a quote from a guitar mart
counter chap.....

"The only reason you ever really need 600 ohm [headphones] is to tell
what 0 dB really sounds like. Sometimes you can't really tell with the
55 ohm ones."

Well, he's right, but for the wrong reason. See, the 600 ohm headphones have
two zeroes in them, so you can hear 0dB, whereas the 55 ohm phones only have
fives in them, so they lack the ability to make subtle distinctions.

Peace,
Paul

On 9/7/05 1:53 PM, in article
, "David Satz"
wrote:

Mike, a practical solid-state alternative for listening to 0 dB is to
use a short circuit. But the problem then, of course, is that it is so
short that you have to listen rather quickly.

--best regards


(Silly picture of John hopping up and down and clapping enthusiastically
trying NOT to spew coffee...)

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:52:16 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

Other dBs can be power ratios.

All dB's are power ratios. A Bel is a power ratio
of 10.

Therefore, "0dB" implies and demands that the
resultant output is *perfect*. It's in Scripture,
just check if you don't believe me.

Chris Hornbeck

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:52:16 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

Other dBs can be power ratios.

All dB's are power ratios. A Bel is a power ratio
of 10.

Avoiding for a second the fact that pro-audio level measurements these
days are made in voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) I'll also point out
that acoustic decibels are *pressure* ratios.

Power ratios ( dBm ) are virtually extinct in pro-audio.

Graham

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:04:42 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

All dB's are power ratios. A Bel is a power ratio
of 10.

Avoiding for a second the fact that pro-audio level measurements these
days are made in voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) I'll also point out
that acoustic decibels are *pressure* ratios.

Power ratios ( dBm ) are virtually extinct in pro-audio.

You dare blaspheme?!?

Sputter, spark, sputter..

Chris Hornbeck

Pooh Bear wrote:

[ ... ] pro-audio level measurements these days are made in
voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) [ ... ] Power ratios ( dBm )
are virtually extinct in pro-audio.

?? I thought that the dBu was a measure of how much acoustic power
u hear when a sound reaches u--after it's gone through all the air
between the source and wherever u happen to be located. And dBm is
just the opposite; if I am the sound source, dBm will represent the
acoustic power at my location (where m = "me").

The higher the resolution of a concert hall, the more its dBu's
will equal its dBm's. In a place such as Symphony Hall in Boston,
the two numbers will have a very high ratio of equalness between
themselves--100:1 or even more. It's quite hard to beat that.

--best regards

On 9/7/05 6:45 PM, in article ,
"Chris Hornbeck" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:52:16 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:

Other dBs can be power ratios.

All dB's are power ratios. A Bel is a power ratio
of 10.

Therefore, "0dB" implies and demands that the
resultant output is *perfect*. It's in Scripture,
just check if you don't believe me.

Depends on what your denomination is...
Old Testament would work with engineering definitions and insist on matching
impedances and power transfer

New Testament would be happy with the simpler kinder bridging measurements

On 9/7/05 8:43 PM, in article
, "David Satz"
wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

[ ... ] pro-audio level measurements these days are made in
voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) [ ... ] Power ratios ( dBm )
are virtually extinct in pro-audio.

?? I thought that the dBu was a measure of how much acoustic power
u hear when a sound reaches u--after it's gone through all the air
between the source and wherever u happen to be located. And dBm is
just the opposite; if I am the sound source, dBm will represent the
acoustic power at my location (where m = "me").

The higher the resolution of a concert hall, the more its dBu's
will equal its dBm's. In a place such as Symphony Hall in Boston,
the two numbers will have a very high ratio of equalness between
themselves--100:1 or even more. It's quite hard to beat that.


(!!! is this guy GOOD , or What!?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:57:46 GMT, SSJVCmag
wrote:

(!!! is this guy GOOD , or What!?)

Arf!

Chris Hornbeck

SSJVCmag wrote:

(!!! is this guy GOOD , or What!?)

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote:
Arf!

DOWN Sandy!

David Satz wrote:

?? I thought that the dBu was a measure of how much acoustic power
u hear when a sound reaches u--after it's gone through all the air
between the source and wherever u happen to be located. And dBm is
just the opposite; if I am the sound source, dBm will represent the
acoustic power at my location (where m = "me").

Of course. And that's why dBV is the amount of acoustic power in
a Volvo, while dBC is sound pressure level with respect to that of
a cat.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Of course. And that's why dBV is the amount of acoustic power in
a Volvo, while dBC is sound pressure level with respect to that of
a cat.

Big cat, small cat, hobie cat, or cool cat? (I'll respect any of 'em.)

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:04:42 -0400, Joe Kesselman
wrote:

Big cat, small cat, hobie cat, or cool cat? (I'll respect any of 'em.)

"There are no ordinary cats." -Colette

or my favorite "One cat just leads to another."
- Hemingway, who kept about 100, whose
descendents still live at his Florida home.

Chris Hornbeck

Chris Hornbeck wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:52:16 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
wrote:


Other dBs can be power ratios.


All dB's are power ratios.

Please let's not go down that road again. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"David Satz" wrote in message
oups.com...
?? I thought that the dBu was a measure of how much acoustic power
u hear when a sound reaches u--after it's gone through all the air
between the source and wherever u happen to be located. And dBm is
just the opposite; if I am the sound source, dBm will represent the
acoustic power at my location (where m = "me").

The higher the resolution of a concert hall, the more its dBu's
will equal its dBm's. In a place such as Symphony Hall in Boston,
the two numbers will have a very high ratio of equalness between
themselves--100:1 or even more. It's quite hard to beat that.

Oh, it's higher in Britain. There, *everyone* is in the m-u.

Peace,
Paul

Some Infuriating Pommy MORON

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

Other dBs can be power ratios.

All dB's are power ratios. A Bel is a power ratio
of 10.

Avoiding for a second the fact that pro-audio level measurements these
days are made in voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) I'll also point out
that acoustic decibels are *pressure* ratios.

Power ratios ( dBm ) are virtually extinct in pro-audio.


** dBs are always power RATIOS !!!!!!!!!

You ****ING ASS !!!

Go learn what the word ** RATIO** means !!!!!!!!!

It means relative to itself.


YET GAIN I HAVE TO TELL YOU :

Sound carries power & sound pressure is equivalent to voltage in a load.

So, ratios of sound pressues squared are POWER ratios.





.......... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

Go learn what the word ** RATIO** means !!!!!!!!!
It means relative to itself.

Doesn't anything relative to itself always have a ratio of 1:1?

Jim Gregory:

1dB is usually accepted as the lowest possible up or down, increment, in
voltage
terms, from a transducer at a mid frequency that can be discerned by human
ear.

But thats not true.
You can hear hear smaller streps (0.5dB) compared directly.
And even smaller steps like 0.1dB are hearable, not as a change of
level, but of sound.
Exacly this sound change makes it hard to compare two preamps,
compressors etc.pp.
If they sound actually equal, the one who is a very little bit louder
sounds clearer and more transparent.

"Mike Rivers"

Phil Allison wrote:

Go learn what the word ** RATIO** means !!!!!!!!!
It means relative to itself.

Doesn't anything relative to itself always have a ratio of 1:1?


** Of course not.

If you suddenly became twice as smart as you were before - that would be
a 2:1 ratio in IQ.

Ratios refer to the same or directly comparable entities.






............ Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

If you suddenly became twice as smart as you were before - that would be
a 2:1 ratio in IQ.

And if YOU suddenly became twice as smart as you were before, you'd
really be dangerous.

Mike Rivers wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

Go learn what the word ** RATIO** means !!!!!!!!!
It means relative to itself.

Doesn't anything relative to itself always have a ratio of 1:1?

Relative to itself? Sounds like a gosh dern ethnic slur to me.
[see oxymoron below]
How 'bout a rousing chorus of, "I'm My Own Grandpa." :-)

Later...

Ron Capik
NJ Pinelands Cultural Society
--

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison wrote:

If you suddenly became twice as smart as you were before - that would
be
a 2:1 ratio in IQ.

And if YOU suddenly became twice as smart as you were before, you'd
really be dangerous.



** Hey - I am more than merely dangerous just as I am.





............. Phil

On 9/7/05 11:04 PM, in article , "Joe
Kesselman" wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Of course. And that's why dBV is the amount of acoustic power in
a Volvo, while dBC is sound pressure level with respect to that of
a cat.

Big cat, small cat, hobie cat, or cool cat? (I'll respect any of 'em.)


Damn.. You HAD to say 'hobie cat" didn¹t you?

Now everybody has to take 10 minutes and go HE

http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archi...-i4/humor2.htm

WARNING...
Do not have coffee, juice or sandwiches in your mouth when you do...

Damn... Phil can't pas up ANY opportunity to **** on ANYBODY's working BBQ
grille can he?
Sheeshe..


On 9/8/05 3:10 AM, in article , "Phil Allison"
wrote:


Some Infuriating Pommy MORON

You ****ING ASS !!!

On 9/8/05 8:56 AM, in article , "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison wrote:

If you suddenly became twice as smart as you were before - that would
be
a 2:1 ratio in IQ.

And if YOU suddenly became twice as smart as you were before, you'd
really be dangerous.



** Hey - I am more than merely dangerous just as I am.

Absolutely.. You're merely annoying too.

This was fun till you peed on the hotdogs...

On 7 Sep 2005 17:43:48 -0700, "David Satz" wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

[ ... ] pro-audio level measurements these days are made in
voltage decibel units ( the dBu ) [ ... ] Power ratios ( dBm )
are virtually extinct in pro-audio.

?? I thought that the dBu was a measure of how much acoustic power
u hear when a sound reaches u--after it's gone through all the air
between the source and wherever u happen to be located. And dBm is
just the opposite; if I am the sound source, dBm will represent the
acoustic power at my location (where m = "me").

The higher the resolution of a concert hall, the more its dBu's
will equal its dBm's. In a place such as Symphony Hall in Boston,
the two numbers will have a very high ratio of equalness between
themselves--100:1 or even more. It's quite hard to beat that.

The last concert I attended had lots of dB SPL's being SPLattered
around everywhere. I think it was a Deep Purple concert, and there
were enought dB SPL's, and the reverberation time was so great, that I
can still hear it.

--best regards

SSJVCmag wrote:

Damn... Phil can't pas up ANY opportunity to **** on ANYBODY's working BBQ
grille can he?
Sheeshe..

This is fixable. Let's hotwire the grill.

--
ha

On 9/8/05 1:03 PM, in article ,
"Ben Bradley" wrote:


The last concert I attended had lots of dB SPL's being SPLattered
around everywhere. I think it was a Deep Purple concert, and there
were enought dB SPL's, and the reverberation time was so great, that I
can still hear it.

An EXCELLENT example of the 'sound heard from the past' effect,
Usually referred to as dBC

On 9/8/05 3:40 PM, in article ,
"hank alrich" wrote:

SSJVCmag wrote:

Damn... Phil can't pas up ANY opportunity to **** on ANYBODY's working BBQ
grille can he?
Sheeshe..

This is fixable. Let's hotwire the grill.

Leave it to you to put things RIGHT back into perspective!

Where'd I put the LOX

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:04:52 -0700, Bob Cain
wrote:

All dB's are power ratios.

Please let's not go down that road again. :-)

I promise to go and sin no more (or less).

Chris Hornbeck