The producers in our publishing company are looking to blame two SL4064
G+ consoles for a sound which they describe as "frequency range
defecient". "The sound is just not a modern sound" "It sounds too
80's"
The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records, our business,
are mixed inside the box, so we should sell the big desks and get
ICON's or AWS 900's or something like that. I take that idea as a bit
extreme, but understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
I want to quantify the quality before I start working budgets. I know
that there are more "hit songs" mixed on 4000 G+'s than there mixed
within a DAW. So I want to check first

-mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound" mastering
engineer re-master something that sounds 80's to the guys, and see if
that makes a difference.
-newer plugins. We have HD systems, but have spent nothing (and NO
cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3 years, and there have been a lot
of new plugs on the market.
-newer bus equipment. The engineers are using 33609's, Quad comp, or
Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss. We have rented the TC System 6000,
but I cannot say that it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our
records.

The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music, for 17 years
now, and listen to all the new music coming out on the market. They
have made attempts to get the tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but
the producers are not satisfied.

I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music trashing, but some
other ideas of where to look or listen to punch-up the sound.
puzzled in the shop

wrote:

The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music, for 17 years
now, and listen to all the new music coming out on the market. They
have made attempts to get the tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but
the producers are not satisfied.

Sounds like a bunch of MIDI guys! Loops of REAL instruments have become
very popular and they can accept a lot more abuse than most sampler
sounds can. It's got nothing to do with anything but the source.

what else is new...

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

On 8/31/05 4:22 PM, in article
, "
wrote:

The producers in our publishing company are looking to blame two SL4064
G+ consoles for a sound which they describe as "frequency range
defecient". "The sound is just not a modern sound" "It sounds too
80's"
The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records, our business,
are mixed inside the box, so we should sell the big desks and get
ICON's or AWS 900's or something like that. I take that idea as a bit
extreme, but understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
I want to quantify the quality before I start working budgets. I know
that there are more "hit songs" mixed on 4000 G+'s than there mixed
within a DAW. So I want to check first

-mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound" mastering
engineer re-master something that sounds 80's to the guys, and see if
that makes a difference.
-newer plugins. We have HD systems, but have spent nothing (and NO
cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3 years, and there have been a lot
of new plugs on the market.
-newer bus equipment. The engineers are using 33609's, Quad comp, or
Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss. We have rented the TC System 6000,
but I cannot say that it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our
records.

The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music, for 17 years
now, and listen to all the new music coming out on the market. They
have made attempts to get the tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but
the producers are not satisfied.

I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music trashing, but some
other ideas of where to look or listen to punch-up the sound.
puzzled in the shop

ALL of what you diagnose (both gear and human oriented) above seem dead
on...
I bet some serious dinner and/or-scotch-bribes to the best damned clear
experieinced been-there heads you can get attention of is in order (!). You
probably won;t get definative answers in public due to the best folks never
wanting to skewer and sacred cows. A phone call to Jay wouldn;t hurt...
Niether would one to Fletcher at Mercenary...

thanks for the responses. The source tracks are not just MIDI. A lot
of acoustic instruments are used, especially when doing film work. One
of our engineers has a Grammy and got within two egos of an Oscar for
his film work, and I just don't think that putting him in front of an
ICON will get the producers to their goal.
WWFD? Thanks for the recommendation!

wrote in message
ups.com

The producers in our publishing company are looking to
blame two SL4064 G+ consoles for a sound which they
describe as "frequency range defecient". "The sound is
just not a modern sound" "It sounds too 80's"

Let's see, the first SSL 4000-series console was announced
in 1977.

Ouch!

The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records,
our business, are mixed inside the box, so we should sell
the big desks and get ICON's or AWS 900's or something
like that.

Ironically, an AWS900 seems to be conceptually similar to a
SSL console, just implemented with a different technology.
The AWS900 was introduced in 2004. It seems to be a SSL
analog console with a DAW add-on.

Ouch!

I take that idea as a bit extreme, but
understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
I want to quantify the quality before I start working
budgets.

Seems like a good idea.

I know that there are more "hit songs" mixed on
4000 G+'s than there mixed within a DAW.

That's like saying that there are more old cars than new
cars. Of course more hit records were recorded since 1977
than since 2004.

So I want to check first
-mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound"
mastering engineer re-master something that sounds 80's
to the guys, and see if that makes a difference.

That might be a worthy experience, but while you're at it
why not do something really modern like have those raw
tracks mixed down on a pure DAW.

-newer plugins. We have HD systems,

That's just replacing magnetic tape with magnetic disk
drives and analog data storage with digital. Nothing like a
major paradigm shift.

but have spent
nothing (and NO cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3
years, and there have been a lot of new plugs on the
market. -newer bus equipment. The engineers are using
33609's, Quad comp, or Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss.

Kinda old school, eh?

We have rented the TC System 6000,

More mastering than tracking or mixdown.

but I cannot say that
it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our records.

Don't you think that the sound of your records is mostly in
the heads of the people making the records?

The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music,
for 17 years now, and listen to all the new music coming
out on the market. They have made attempts to get the
tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but the producers
are not satisfied.

How does your staff feel about truely modern technology, not
updated SSL consoles with DAWs spliced onto their sides?

I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music
trashing, but some other ideas of where to look or listen
to punch-up the sound.

How much updating can your group thinking withstand?

Hi Arny,
the comment about hit songs mixed on SSL's refers to the last two
years, not two decades. My source is Billboard.

And what would be your "truely modern technology" studio? In the
digital world, truely modern is trash in five years. What is your spec
for today?

I think it that the groupthinking can and wants to do a lot of
updating. That's why I am out doing some tech research and having some
introspective discussions with the programmers, producers, and
engineers before I sit-down with the money-man.

Our mixes are half in-the-box already. Sounds, cuts, rides, subgroups
are all done in PT. The SSL is only a mix buss, with a little fader
action for those who want it.

Thanks for your input. I know that I am going in the right direction.
It is the Gear AND the Ear. And the room, and the mouth, and the
brain, and the experience, and the . . .

In article .com,
wrote:

And what would be your "truely modern technology" studio? In the
digital world, truely modern is trash in five years. What is your spec
for today?

I don't know about Arny, but my Ampex sure sounds good.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."