Hi all,

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the extraction and the AIFF
files inverting the phase, and there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the
files are exact then?

I am thinking this person has made up his mind what he thinks and his
methods are best - nothing will change his mind.

He says his master disc sounds the best, with the AIFF file CD 2nd, and the
audio extraction CD #3.

It probably is a CD player problem. There probably is a difference in the
way his (and maybe mine) handle different dyes on cd-r's

I couldn't convince him to use the same dye/disc as the master for the
copies as to eliminate 1 thing in the chain.

I think I'll get on to the next project...

Thanks,
--
Tom Jancauskas
Imedia

Tom Jancauskas wrote:

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the extraction and the AIFF
files inverting the phase, and there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the
files are exact then?

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that discs with the
same data are sounding different on his player.

Could be due to clocking, could be due to interpolation. Checking the
error rate and having him use an outboard A/D will help

I couldn't convince him to use the same dye/disc as the master for the
copies as to eliminate 1 thing in the chain.

Won't help unless you also use the same drive and the same writing speed.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

in article , Scott Dorsey at
wrote on 9/6/05 10:07 AM:

Tom Jancauskas wrote:

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the extraction and the AIFF
files inverting the phase, and there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the
files are exact then?

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that discs with the
same data are sounding different on his player.

Could be due to clocking, could be due to interpolation. Checking the
error rate and having him use an outboard A/D will help

I couldn't convince him to use the same dye/disc as the master for the
copies as to eliminate 1 thing in the chain.

Won't help unless you also use the same drive and the same writing speed.
--scott



Thanks Scott. I have given up on him for now. I don't think he will every be
pleased with ANYTHING and will say he hears a difference no matter what.

I can't get him to tell me any more about what the chain used was that
burned the master disc. Any suggestions to suggest change to his test
methods or approaches are met with "but this goes to 11" spinal tap type
response.


--
Tom Jancauskas
Imedia

"Tom Jancauskas" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the extraction and the AIFF
files inverting the phase, and there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the
files are exact then?

Files yes, burn no. If this pilgrim is still using a CD player, jitter
could easily be a factor. You can burn a CD with rampant jitter, then
extract back to hard drive, and the files can still be identical. DVD
players all use data buffering which in effect eliminates jitter, and they
also have better transports and D/A converters in general. I don't know why
CD players are even being sold anymore. A buddy of mine always ranted about
his precious NAD 514 until my old Toshiba SD1600 wasted it.

"Zigakly" wrote in message

"Tom Jancauskas" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the
extraction and the AIFF files inverting the phase, and
there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the files are
exact then?

Files yes, burn no.

Good point. A CD player is a massive jitter reduction
device, but a CDROM plus a computer trumps that by a mile.

If this pilgrim is still using a CD
player, jitter could easily be a factor.

Error recovery could also be an issue. As a rule CD players
read the disc only once, but CD ripping programs in
computers face no such constraints.

You can burn a
CD with rampant jitter, then extract back to hard drive,
and the files can still be identical.

Ditto for errors that are unrecovered on a CD player.

DVD players all
use data buffering which in effect eliminates jitter, and
they also have better transports and D/A converters in
general.

CD players also have jitter-reducing buffers, but there's
usually two layers of buffering in a DVD player+decoder.

I don't know why CD players are even being sold anymore.

They generally load and cue CDs faster, but other than
that....

A buddy of mine always ranted about his
precious NAD 514 until my old Toshiba SD1600 wasted it.

Let's hear it for modern technology.

in article , Arny Krueger at
wrote on 9/6/05 3:23 PM:

"Zigakly" wrote in message

"Tom Jancauskas" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the
extraction and the AIFF files inverting the phase, and
there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the files are
exact then?

Files yes, burn no.

Good point. A CD player is a massive jitter reduction
device, but a CDROM plus a computer trumps that by a mile.

If this pilgrim is still using a CD
player, jitter could easily be a factor.

Error recovery could also be an issue. As a rule CD players
read the disc only once, but CD ripping programs in
computers face no such constraints.

You can burn a
CD with rampant jitter, then extract back to hard drive,
and the files can still be identical.

Ditto for errors that are unrecovered on a CD player.

DVD players all
use data buffering which in effect eliminates jitter, and
they also have better transports and D/A converters in
general.

CD players also have jitter-reducing buffers, but there's
usually two layers of buffering in a DVD player+decoder.

I don't know why CD players are even being sold anymore.

They generally load and cue CDs faster, but other than
that....

A buddy of mine always ranted about his
precious NAD 514 until my old Toshiba SD1600 wasted it.

Let's hear it for modern technology.



Thank you all for all of the enlightenment. After all of this, I had
reaffirmed some beliefs I had and learned some new things.

Thanks again

--
Tom Jancauskas
Imedia

Zigakly wrote:
"Tom Jancauskas" wrote in message
...

Hi all,

I did a test a few minutes ago lining up both the extraction and the AIFF
files inverting the phase, and there was COMPLETE silence! So I guess the
files are exact then?


Files yes, burn no. If this pilgrim is still using a CD player, jitter
could easily be a factor. You can burn a CD with rampant jitter, then
extract back to hard drive, and the files can still be identical. DVD
players all use data buffering which in effect eliminates jitter, and they
also have better transports and D/A converters in general. I don't know why
CD players are even being sold anymore. A buddy of mine always ranted about
his precious NAD 514 until my old Toshiba SD1600 wasted it.


LOL! I had a similar experience. I half heartedly bought a Panasonic DVD
player just for video and slowly realized that it played CDs better than
my CD player! Of course the CD unit loaded faster, but who cares. It's
all about the sound.

CD