Hey everyone,

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp. I was thinking of buying this PA system
package and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.

Run, don't walk, in the direction of the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement
Handbook. You can get it online or, maybe, at a local bookstore or music
store.

Peace,
Paul

I actually have that book... i will take a look at it again. but can
you recommend anything?

I actually have that book... i will take a look at it again. but can
you recommend anything?

wrote:
Hey everyone,

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp. I was thinking of buying this PA system
package and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.


Before you commit to any system, you should do more research. For example, go to Carvin's web site
and see what you can get for similar cost. Carvin gear is direct sales oriented, so you tend to get
more for your money. And they've been in business for over fifty years, too.

My band owns a large system and it is flawless and quiet. And their warranty service is very, very
good, too.

I am in no way affiliated with Carvin or any employees of the company. I am, however, concerned that
people should be well informed on the available choices since money is not something that grows on
trees or in the ground, but must be earned, often through dedicated service to the corporate masters
from whom we strive to break free.

--fletch

Oh, and as far as microphones, buy SM57's and 58's to start, they're under a hundred bucks each.
Then build up your selection as you require.

Remember, you want to record full bands, the system you showed will do acoustic bands very well, but
you need to think expandability, too. So whatever system you buy should be the "first step" in
constructing a larger system.

Call Carvin and talk with them about what you are building and they will get you started on the
right path so each piece you buy will integrate into a larger whole as you need to grow the system.
That is critical so you won't be wasting money on gear you'll have to replace as you enlarge the
system. This is one thing Carvin is very good at and that is why I recommend their stuff.

--fletch

For a PA of that size, I wouldn't recommend miking any backline. If the
guitar/keys are not using a seperate amp, then no problem because you will
have full control over the levels. Once backline comes into the equasion,
you will find that a small system like this will find it hard enough to
compete with the levels of guitar amps. There will be plenty of sound coming
off stage. You will need the overhead of the system to balance up vocals and
any other acoustic intruments. Amplified guitars will cloud the overall mix
if you try to put them through the PA as well.

--
Lynn
Wobbly Music
"Supporting the Mature Artist"
=============================
http://www.wobblymusic.net
Latest Release... "Friends" by John McKeon
Order your copy now and get 2 FREE bonus tracks!
http://www.johnmckeon.wobblymusic.net



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey everyone,

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp. I was thinking of buying this PA system
package and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp. I was thinking of buying this PA system
package and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.

Do not mic acoustic guitar amps, in fact I would do my best to convince the
guitarist to leave it at home. They usually have piezo tweeters which sound
like garbage. The two biggest challenges to an acoustic guitar sound is to
get clean treble and a controlled body sound. Clean treble can best be
gotten from a decent and well-installed piezo pick-up connected to a good
active DI box, like a BSS AR133 or LA Baggs Para Acoustic, but a Behringer
DI100 can work too on the cheap. If the board is close to the stage,
plugging right into the board may or may not work out, can't say until you
try. Controlled body tone might require a sound hole plug, depending on the
guitar. For the most part you're at the mercy of the guitar builder for the
sound, and every acoustic guitarist is married to their guitar so you're
stuck with whatever they bring.

The PA package from MF is a good choice, but be wary of the mic cables, best
get some more sturdy ones. I would want a higher mid-sweep for the channel
EQ's because it can help clean up acoustic guitar to pull back on the 8kHz
and turn up the high treble, but those only go up to 5kHz, not a
deal-breaker though. You'll also want an EQ for mains and monitors, for
that I recommend an Alesis DEQ230, unless you want to spend upwards of $700
for an analog dual-31 that isn't noisy as hell and doesn't have a crunchy
top-end.

The AKG D8000 vocal mics that are included sound very good and work with
pretty much every voice you put in front of them, but they have no
shock-mounting, so you'll get a lot of handling noise if someone takes it
off a stand. The AKG D880 is similar but with good shock-mounting, my
prefered live vocal mic.

When you start doing bands with drums you'll probably want a power amp to
get more out of the speakers, the Behringer EP2500 is an unbeatable value
for that job.

SSkankin wrote:
I actually have that book... i will take a look at it again. but can
you recommend anything?

1. Take a deep breath.

2. Think, "why am I using PA on an acoustic show?"

See, you can use PA to make things balance that don't normally
balance, like groups that have loud instruments and vocals that
can't be heard over the instruments. You can use PA to make
everything equally louder, too. Which do you need?

3. Find out what needs to be louder. Maybe just vocals. Maybe
everything but a drum. Maybe everything.

4. Get a system to do that job.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Wow Fletch uses Carvin. I'm gonna have to reconsider that brand that I
have previously thought of as not very impressive. For Cafe
acoustic/semi acoustic gigs (I've done many) My simple system works
very well and is modular enuf to expand some. Its a Spirit PowerStation
600 w/ EV SX300 mains and rarely used in cafes (2) 12+1 home brew
monitors. The spirit preamps sound good with sm58 and the swept eq
sounds good on Acoustic guitars/ Mando/ fiddle. The SX300 or similar
are a better choice than the Yam or most MI 15+1 boxes. Light weight &
sound sweet. A&H make a powered mixwiz thats great too. IMHO I think
the Brits make nice boards for this type of gig .YMMV

Kevin T.

wrote:

Hey everyone,

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp. I was thinking of buying this PA system
package and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

This is probably not too bad for a starter system in that price range,
but I see two problems.

1) There is insufficent cable provided to locate the mixer anywhere but
on the stage, which is about the worst place from which to mix.

2) If you add cables to locate the mixer properly then you will have to
run long speaker cables because the power amplifiers are build into the
mixer. It is far better to have the power amplifers located on the stage
and run only mic and line signals between the stage and the mixer.

These may not be problems in a small cafe but will limit your capabilities
in larger venues.

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.


--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:01:59 -0700, SSkankin wrote:

Hey everyone,

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe. I
am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands. The lead singer
that also plays guitar brings a amp with him, so I was thinking I would
been to mike up the amp.

Miking a guitar amp in a small cafe is usually a big mistake. For acoustic
guitars, run them straight into the PA through a good direct box. Use an
active direct box if the guitar doesn't have an onboard preamp. If it does
have a preamp, active or passive is fine. For electric guitars, you're
usually better of not miking them unless you've got a really big room and
a really small amp.

I was thinking of buying this PA system package
and wanted someone to tell if this is worth it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...ase_pid/601415

It looks like overkill for a small cafe acoustic show. It's tough to get
good clean vocals out of most 15" boxes. The only thing that MIGHT
benefit from a 15 is you keyboards, depending on what they are. Even
at that, I'd be more inclined to look for some 12" boxes & tell the
keyboard player to get an amp IF he thinks he needs more bottom. This
would still be adequate for a full band in a small space, because you
still shouldn't need anything in the PA except for vocals & acoustic
instruments.

Also Can you tell me if the mics that come with the set are going for
micing a amp? if not what do you recommend, I could use as much help as
possible.

If you insist on miking the amp, they're fine. They're fine for vocals as
well.

wrote:

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

Don't go out and buy equipment for your first show. Rent until you get
some experience under your belt.

Don't go out and buy equipment for your first show. Rent until you get
some experience under your belt.

Among other things, that gives you the opportunity to experiment with
different equipment and decide what works well for you and what doesn't.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:50:28 -0400, Joe Kesselman wrote:

Don't go out and buy equipment for your first show. Rent until you get
some experience under your belt.

Among other things, that gives you the opportunity to experiment with
different equipment and decide what works well for you and what doesn't.

All true. But don't be surprised if the rental cost more than the gig
pays. Welcome to the world of club gigging in the 21st century.

KGT wrote:
Wow Fletch uses Carvin. I'm gonna have to reconsider that brand that I
have previously thought of as not very impressive. For Cafe
acoustic/semi acoustic gigs (I've done many)

I have not been impressed with the Carvin cabinets, which are pretty
flimsy. But the consoles and power amps are better than most of the
entry-level MI store gear.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

You are right! Rental of that system would likely be in the $400 range.
Cafe gigs around here pay the door or $100-200 or pass the hat. Still
its less than a $2000 system that doesnt do the job lesson.
Just as a point of reference, I've used my G2 EON15 as the complete
acoustic trio Cafe/ small gig PA on several occations with good
results.A powered speaker unit w/ mixer makes a good back up when the
$2k system breaks/does'nt fit etc.

Kevin T

On 25 Aug 2005 09:01:59 -0700, wrote:

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands.

What does the term "Acoustic" mean to you? :-)

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Laurence Payne wrote:
On 25 Aug 2005 09:01:59 -0700, wrote:

In two months I will be engineering my first live show in a small cafe.
I am very confused on what kind of equipment I should purchase and was
hoping someone can help me.

At first I will be only engineering Acoustic shows Vocal, Guitar, and
Keyboard but in the future I will be doing full bands.

What does the term "Acoustic" mean to you? :-)

It's a kind of guitar, isn't it?


I saw that Zorro guy pimpin one on TV late one night,

Fletch wrote:
Oh, and as far as microphones, buy SM57's and 58's to start

That brings up a question: When (if ever?) do the Beta 57's/58's have a
significant advantage/disadvantage compared to the classic SM57/58? I
seem to remember that the original SMs are cardioid and the betas are
supercardiod ... does that also imply the betas have stronger proximity
effect?

(My preference in microphones has mostly been like Peter Schickele's
preference in instruments: "Professor Schickele plays whatever piano is
available, exclusively.")

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:05:22 -0400, Joe Kesselman wrote:

When (if ever?) do the Beta 57's/58's have a
significant advantage/disadvantage compared to the classic SM57/58? I seem
to remember that the original SMs are cardioid and the betas are
supercardiod ... does that also imply the betas have stronger proximity
effect?

Well, if you're a retailer the higher price (and presumably higher markup)
would be an advantage. And the sturdier screen end on a Beta57 is
certainly an advantage on snare duty for a drummer with a bad aim.

In general, you'd expect more proximity effect with a narrower pattern. I
haven't used the Betas enough to make the comparison. They're neodymium
mics, so they sound different. To my ear, they don't sound like what I
think a Shure mic ought to sound like. And EV does the ND mics well enough
I haven't found a good reason to bother with them.

Of course, YMMV.