"dave weil" wrote in message


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:37:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:01:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in
message nk.net

This isn't a bad ideal. Many companies do the same thing - but
they:

- (1) do real research and testing

Agreed.

- (2) pay more than $20-$30 for their drivers

Surprisingly, mostly wrong when it comest o consumer speaker
drivers. More accurately stated: They buy their drivers in big
enough quantities that $20-30 gets them just about *anything they
want*.

- (3) sell them for reasonable markups.

Agreed.

I should point out that at this point, the scope of the discussion is in my
view, at minimum all companies that sell high quality 2-way loudspeakers.
When looking at the little Jupiters, similar speakers from Paradigm, NHT,
PSB, BA etc. come to mind. Since the little Jupiters have woofers that are
no great shakes at Xmax, speakers with 6.5 and 7" woofers are competitive.

If one agrees with your first statement, then one would have to
disagree with the second, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers
for $1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.

You obviously can't count Weil, because my first statement has
nothing to do with driver costs.

Sorry, you are correct. I meant your second statement.

Thank you Mr. Weil. If you had only been able to muster this level of candor
a number of years ago...

I maintain that I *can* count however. If anything, I am guilty of
skimming.

Well dohhhh!

If you were going to intelligently make this sort of
comment, you'd address it to my second and third statements. Your
post proves only that you can't count to three. Please come back
when you obtain that skill.

Well, now that I've acknowledged my mistake (and I was able to do it
without your level of spleen and spite),

No Weil, you weren't! IME for your entire previous career on RAO, you've
acknowledged a vanishing percentage of your factual mistakes. But hey,
growth and maturity is growth and maturity and it deserves some honor, no
matter how belated. Henceforth in this post I'll refer to you as "Mr. Weil".

you can accept that your
demand is now met. Of course, I'm pretty sure that you knew that
anyway.

Mr. Weil, you're getting close enough to be telling the truth that I should
answer the a rephrased version of your question:

If one agrees with your second statement, then one would have to
disagree with the third, since there are plenty of 2 way speakers
for $1600 or more (or 3 way speakers for $1800 or more) UNLESS you
stipulate that Greg's markup is ALSO reasonable.

You've appear to have missed a logical step Mr. Weil. You presumed that I
think that the pricing of all $1600 or more a pair 2-way speakers is
reasonable. Since I don't think that the pricing of all $1600 or more 2-way
speakers is reasonable, that's that!

For the record, I think that the reasonableness of the pricing of all $1600
or more a pair 2-way small consumer loudspeakers needs to be judged on an
individual basis. OTOH the $1600 per pair pricing of large venue 2-ways such
as those made by Community Light and Sound is generally accepted. The
roughly $1600 per pair pricing of small high quality studio monitors like
the JBL LSR8P or Mackie HR828s is also generally accepted.

One problem with Usenet trolls is that they seem to live in a
black-and-white world, and scream "contradiction" when a superficial
ignorant analysis doesn't work, which is most of the time.

One only has to look at Bugtussel as an example.

I don't know what sort of volumes Bugtussel is moving. Bugtussel has
one very strong advantage over Jupiter - a seasoned,
technically-sophisticated chief designer who still remembers what he
learned in his science classes, and aggressively built on a solid
technical education over a period of years. Did I mention that the
last time we worked together we did a demonstration of PCABX?

Well then, if you're going to imply that they are paying *more* for
their drivers than your hypothetical example, how much more do the
drivers have to be for you to still claim that their markups aren't
excessive vis a vis the Jupiters?

How you can find an implication about drivers in this paragraph Mr. Weil, I
just don't know. I put in an implication that part of what you pay for with
a loudspeaker purchase is the designer's skill, experience and track record.
How that got lost, I just don't know! Skimming?

Keep in mind that they have an almost $2000 two-way speaker.

I'm sure that if you do that, you're paying a lot for the designer's skill,
experience and track record.

Keep in mind the other examples I listed.