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#1
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Mackie Onyx 80 Series
I was just reading up on the new Mackie Onyx 80 series live consoles
and noticed that they're priced on par with the Midas Venice range. I've had the pleasure of mixing on a Venice console a few of times and I'm wondering how the mackie will up. The Onyx 80 feature set is slightly more extensive than the Venice's, the most notable differences being Onyx 80's eight subgroups over Venice's four and eight Aux channels over Venice's six. Extra features at the expense of quality, or economy of scale at it's finest? I guess I'll have to spec an ONYX 80 for my next rider to find out. KZ |
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#2
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#4
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"Jon" jon@waite wrote in message
... I have always found mackies to have a fairly transparent sound. I have used everything from the original 1604, 1604VLZ, 24x8, SR40x8. And have NEVER been let down in the quality department. I did a recording on a 1604VLZ direct to computer for someone, she just recently contacted me again because she wants to do more recording, even though she was offered free studio time in a full protools room(friend of eminem) i live about 15 mins from where he lives. It just goes to show that its not always about big brand names, its all about how you use the equipment you have on hand. Sorry for the long post. I'd have to disagree, at least with the larger 8-buss boards. I've never heard a Mackie EQ section that I really liked, and I can't see paying that much money for a board that doesn't have a good EQ section. If the Onyx actually has better preamps, a better a EQ section, and less buss noise than the current lines I would certainly be interesterd. Sean |
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#5
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Mike Rivers wrote:
In article .com writes: I was just reading up on the new Mackie Onyx 80 series live consoles and noticed that they're priced on par with the Midas Venice range. Extra features at the expense of quality, or economy of scale at it's finest? I guess I'll have to spec an ONYX 80 for my next rider to find out. I don't know how soon you'll be able to do that. If there are any 80 series shipping, it's very recent. I suspect it'll be a while yet before anyone has one. I think the Midas is built in Italy, and the Mackie is built in China. I'm sure that makes a difference in the landed cost. I see that some dealers are advertising some of the larger Onyx 80s (e.g. 32 input). Anybody know if this is vapor or what? |
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#6
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Sean Conolly wrote:
I've never heard a Mackie EQ section that I really liked, and I can't see paying that much money for a board that doesn't have a good EQ section. The Onyx EQ is in a completely different league than any previous Mackie EQ I have used. If the Onyx actually has better preamps, a better a EQ section Yes. less buss noise than the current lines It may well have less than the current lines but the headroom issues are still there. Keep the levels low enough and they sound OK. |
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#7
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#8
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Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes: I see that some dealers are advertising some of the larger Onyx 80s (e.g. 32 input). It happens all the time. Catalogs are prepared well before new products are released, but heaven help them if it's not in the catalog when it's actually available. Hence the question - are they really available to regular purchasers? You seem to be suggesting not, but hope springs eternal. |
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#9
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I should have said the mic pre's not the overall. i do and hate the eq
on the mackie 24x8, but the one on the 1604 sounded better to me. Thats why i haven't put the mackie on my "recording consoles to consider". Although, they are tough as nails so i am intriged in the new digital live and DXB. Sean Conolly wrote: "Jon" jon@waite wrote in message ... I have always found mackies to have a fairly transparent sound. I have used everything from the original 1604, 1604VLZ, 24x8, SR40x8. And have NEVER been let down in the quality department. I did a recording on a 1604VLZ direct to computer for someone, she just recently contacted me again because she wants to do more recording, even though she was offered free studio time in a full protools room(friend of eminem) i live about 15 mins from where he lives. It just goes to show that its not always about big brand names, its all about how you use the equipment you have on hand. Sorry for the long post. I'd have to disagree, at least with the larger 8-buss boards. I've never heard a Mackie EQ section that I really liked, and I can't see paying that much money for a board that doesn't have a good EQ section. If the Onyx actually has better preamps, a better a EQ section, and less buss noise than the current lines I would certainly be interesterd. Sean |
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#10
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"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
... Sean Conolly wrote: I've never heard a Mackie EQ section that I really liked, and I can't see paying that much money for a board that doesn't have a good EQ section. The Onyx EQ is in a completely different league than any previous Mackie EQ I have used. If the Onyx actually has better preamps, a better a EQ section Yes. less buss noise than the current lines It may well have less than the current lines but the headroom issues are still there. Keep the levels low enough and they sound OK. I take it you have one? They seem to be pretty rare right now, so do tell... Sean |
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#11
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#12
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Sean Conolly wrote:
I take it you have one? They seem to be pretty rare right now, so do tell... I have an Onyx 1620, not an Onyx 80. My comments were based on my experience with the 1620, but the 80 appears to have the same input & EQ sections (with more auxes, buses, etc.) I *hope* it has better bus headroom. |
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#13
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I have always found mackies to have a fairly transparent sound.
Yeah, if you don't touch anything. I like the pres well enough, but they can way too easily be overdriven even if you're paying attention. Plus they have a tendency to go into noise when pushing some low gain mics like ribbons and the SM7. The eq sucks, but I mean that in a nice way! g But that's the VLZ stuff and not the Onyx. Hopefully the bus problems and having a usable eq is in the works on the 80 series. I spent a few years working on the older 40*8 and I respect Mackie for building a decently priced larger framed mixer, but it was nothing spectacular. The man who bought it just loved the pres, but I didn't particularly like the sound going to the Meyers AM4Ts. I did find the Venice to be a nicer in audio quality but I felt the faders weren't up to the quality I would have expected from Midas. They seem a little flimsy (they moved from side to side) and a little too stiff. Then again, the Midas name and service rep for the dollars you spend makes it an awfully tempting product. If it came down to it, unless Mackie has come up with one killer product in terms of it's EQ and bus headroom, I'd probably lean towards the Midas, and if one threw in Crest at somewhere near the same price point, frame for frame and feature for feature, Crest would win hands down in my book. Wish I hadn't said that. Just did a quick search and found a factory demo Crest XFour 24 channel frame for $4k. That certainly puts a Crest into the Mackie price range! g By the way, unless you're really into doing large scale productions, 4 busses are enough. With the stereo mains, and a mono, you've got 7 operable busses anyway. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Jon" jon@waite wrote in message ... I have used everything from the original 1604, 1604VLZ, 24x8, SR40x8. And have NEVER been let down in the quality department. I did a recording on a 1604VLZ direct to computer for someone, she just recently contacted me again because she wants to do more recording, even though she was offered free studio time in a full protools room(friend of eminem) i live about 15 mins from where he lives. It just goes to show that its not always about big brand names, its all about how you use the equipment you have on hand. Sorry for the long post. Jon Waite JB Productions Mike Rivers wrote: In article .com writes: I was just reading up on the new Mackie Onyx 80 series live consoles and noticed that they're priced on par with the Midas Venice range. Extra features at the expense of quality, or economy of scale at it's finest? I guess I'll have to spec an ONYX 80 for my next rider to find out. I don't know how soon you'll be able to do that. If there are any 80 series shipping, it's very recent. I suspect it'll be a while yet before anyone has one. I think the Midas is built in Italy, and the Mackie is built in China. I'm sure that makes a difference in the landed cost. Just because these things change very slowly, I expect that it will be a long time before people move their allegiance from Midas to Mackie, which means that sound companies will be slow in picking them up. I would guess that first it will have to prove itself in fixed venues and installations before traveling crews take a new console seriously, particularly with Mackie's tarnished reputation in their earlier large live sound consoles. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#14
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I'll check with Chuck Levin's today as I have to go up and pick up my X3
from repair. They didn't have any the last time I was there. Plus they aren't showing the product on their website yet. Oops, yes they are. There's a 2480, 3280, 4080 and 4880 in the Onyx product line, but no press release I saw actually had availability time. They were first shown at the NCSA Convention March 10th. If I had to guess, I'd say probably the first part of 2nd quarter. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Mike Rivers wrote: In article writes: I see that some dealers are advertising some of the larger Onyx 80s (e.g. 32 input). It happens all the time. Catalogs are prepared well before new products are released, but heaven help them if it's not in the catalog when it's actually available. Hence the question - are they really available to regular purchasers? You seem to be suggesting not, but hope springs eternal. |
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#15
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"Jon" jon@waite wrote in message
news  I should have said the mic pre's not the overall. i do and hate the eq on the mackie 24x8, but the one on the 1604 sounded better to me. Thats why i haven't put the mackie on my "recording consoles to consider". Although, they are tough as nails so i am intriged in the new digital live and DXB. Perhaps the pre's on the 1202VLz are different than the 1604, but I found the mic pre's on the 1202, even bypassing the strip and using only the insert, to be far from transparent. I've compared them to the pre's on the E-MU 1820m breakout box, RME Fireface and the Great River MP-2NV and the Mackie lacked on both the top and bottom end in comparison. In other words, it seemed as if some top and bottom was being compressed/eliminated. -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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#16
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Bob Savage wrote:
Perhaps the pre's on the 1202VLz are different than the 1604, but I found the mic pre's on the 1202, even bypassing the strip and using only the insert, to be far from transparent. I've compared them to the pre's on the E-MU 1820m breakout box, RME Fireface and the Great River MP-2NV and the Mackie lacked on both the top and bottom end in comparison. In other words, it seemed as if some top and bottom was being compressed/eliminated. The 1202 and 1604 preamps are the same, and they aren't all that bad if you are careful. One of the big problems with them is that they do not provide much of a load to the mike, so dynamic mikes that are very load sensitive can sound terrible through them. Another problem is the sonic change that accompanies a change in the gain... if you keep the trims within a fairly narrow range you're okay but if you go too high or too low the sound suffers. When you consider the total cost of the preamp section on those things is probably well under $2/channel, you gotta admit that you are getting a lot for the money. They aren't wonderful, but you can work with them if you are very careful, which is more than I can say for a lot of other gear at that price point. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#17
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... The 1202 and 1604 preamps are the same, and they aren't all that bad if you are careful. One of the big problems with them is that they do not provide much of a load to the mike, so dynamic mikes that are very load sensitive can sound terrible through them. Another problem is the sonic change that accompanies a change in the gain... if you keep the trims within a fairly narrow range you're okay but if you go too high or too low the sound suffers. That could have been the problem. A lot of my tracking involves guitar amplifiers, so it's possible the E-MU, RME and GR pre's just dealt with the signal better. -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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#18
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#19
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Sean Conolly wrote:
If the Onyx actually has better preamps, a better a EQ section, and less buss noise than the current lines I would certainly be interesterd. It does. Gain staging still reamins critical but that sort of holds true for all consoles in most situations, if one wants to get the best from them. -- ha |
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#20
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1113859436k@trad... How do you know when a mic preamp is transparent anyway? Do you ever really know what the mic sounds like? "Crappy preamp" is one that adds distortion that you don't like. "Colored preamp" is one that adds distortion that you like. "Transparent preamp" is one that doesn't add any obvious color. I agree, bad = coloration you don't like and good = coloration you do like, in most cases. However, when comparing for example, the E-MU pre's, I used some electric guitar tracks (clean and distorted) and the Mackie pre's sounded "muffled" in comparison, particularly because I was using what was coming out of the speaker cabinet as a point of reference. I used the Mackie for more than a few years and it never occured to me why I had to EQ the amplifier much brighter than I prefer, until I started experimenting with other preamps. As far as coloration, I really like the sound of the Great River pre's and I would hardly call them transparent. Casual measurement, not a lab test, but it gives you indication of what's wrong with the VLZ-Pro when it's pushed. Interesting stuff. I generally ran the trim somewhere between 10:00 and 1:00. -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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#21
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Yeah, but I got stuck doing landscaping stuff yesterday, so I'm off to
Chuck's today. I'll be back in a couple of hours. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1113836142k@trad... In article writes: I'll check with Chuck Levin's today as I have to go up and pick up my X3 from repair. They didn't have any the last time I was there. Plus they aren't showing the product on their website yet. Oops, yes they are. There's a 2480, 3280, 4080 and 4880 in the Onyx product line, but no press release I saw actually had availability time. They were first shown at the NCSA Convention March 10th. They had one on display at the AES show in October, but like I said, it's a while between when something works well enough to display it at a trade show, when it looks enough like the final product so that they can take pictures foor the catalog, and when it actually hits the dealers' shelves. I would think that Washington Music would be pretty high on the list for getting at least one for display. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#22
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#23
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1113930961k@trad... In that range, the Mackie is a pretty clean preamp and covers the full audio spectrum quite well. Did you solo the channel and check to be sure you were well within the headroom range? And where did you take the output that you were recording? If you used anything but the Insert output, you were going through some other stages of the mixer which could indeed get you a somewhat muffled sound. I'm not certain I understand what you mean by soloing to see if I were well within the headroom range, but I did solo to ensure there was no clipping or "weirdness." I was using the channel inserts (balanced cable 1/2 into the jack), then into either a Delta 1010 or the E-MU 1820m. I still have the Mackie but haven't compared the pre's to the ones in the RME Fireface. -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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#24
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#25
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1114089242k@trad... In the Mackie manuals, they tell you to solo the channel and check the level on the main VU meters. The trim control should be so that the meter shouldn't peak very much and very often over 0 VU. With the trim set at that point, you'll have in excess of 20 dB of headroom in the channel and you aren't likely to overload the mixing bus in a mix. But if you watch the meters on your DAW and turn the gain up so that it runs just below clipping on THOSE meters, you'll almost certainly be pushing the mixer channel too hard, and maybe even the A/D converter in your sound card. Ah, gotcha! I did do that initially when I first bought the Mackie, but never did it again. The amps are usually pretty loud, so there's plenty of signal coming from the mic. In any event, I like the RME pre's better, and since I have 12 of them, that's a good thing.  -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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#26
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In the Mackie manuals, they tell you to solo the channel and check the
level on the main VU meters. The trim control should be so that the meter shouldn't peak very much and very often over 0 VU. In article OuS9e.57079$lz2.9197@fed1read07 writes: Ah, gotcha! I did do that initially when I first bought the Mackie, but never did it again. Yeah, same with my guitar. I tuned it when I first bought it, but never did that again. It doesn't sound as good as it used to, even though I can play better now. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#27
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1114219757k@trad... Yeah, same with my guitar. I tuned it when I first bought it, but never did that again. It doesn't sound as good as it used to, even though I can play better now. Is it my turn now to be a jack arse? |
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#28
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1114219757k@trad... Yeah, same with my guitar. I tuned it when I first bought it, but never did that again. It doesn't sound as good as it used to, even though I can play better now. By the way, if you would like to hear some recordings with the Mackie pre's, go to my website. It doesn't sound bad, it's just not as good to *me* as other pre's I've used. Now, let's hear your guitar and your playing. -- http://www.bobsavage.net |
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