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#1
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Another Piano micing question
I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this
one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#2
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"transmogrifa" wrote in
ups.com: I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any mic under the piano is going to get a muffled sound. 1) Can you attach your PZM to the underside of the lid? Gaffers tape will leave no residue, or perhaps a spot of black velcro. 2) Are your tip jar and drink coaster on the lid just above the keyboard, or can you fold that back to expose the strings? A mic on a stand pointing down into the string cavity will get some semblance, but it will also get plenty of room noise. 3) A pickup mounted to the sounding board is another option, though less desirable. |
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#3
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"transmogrifa" wrote ...
I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. For what reason are you micing it? Reinforcement? Recording? What kind of music? PZM on the floor maybe for recording, but maybe not enough gain before feedback for reinforcement (depending on music, levels, etc. etc. etc.) Not sure why you would want padding under a PZM, kinda destroys the integrity of the reflective surface, etc. PZM inside the lid might be a possibility even if you can't have the lid open during business hours. Much better gain before feedback. Certainly a different "sound", but then we are completely in the dark about what kind of music, what you need, etc. etc. |
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#4
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transmogrifa wrote:
I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. (1) Open lid (2) Attach PZM to underside of lid - industrial strength Velcro works and stays. (3) Close lid Where you put the PZM on the lid depends on what kind of sound you want. If you put it up by the hammers, then you a well-hammered sound along with some mechanical sounds from the hammer mechanism If you put it in the middle, you get a very midrangy sound If you put it down by the foot of the piano, then you get as much of a bassy sound as you are going to get with a mic inside a piano If you don't know what you want, or you want lotsa choices, you get 3 PZMs and route each to an input on a mic mixer... ;-) |
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#5
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In article . com,
transmogrifa wrote: I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com For recording I'd use something other than a PZM. The Crown pzm's I own have a high end that's crappy for acoustic piano. I'd bet the Rat Shack ones aren't any better. They do have other uses 'tho. But for your live application, def go ahead. Tape them or one of them inside the piano, not on the floor. Use a good gaffers tape and any residue will come off no sweat. I had a pair attached to the underside of the lid of our grand for well over a year. The goo came off with a wet paper towel and the rich ebony finish was spotless again. David Correia Celebration Sound Warren, Rhode Island www.CelebrationSound.com |
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#6
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"transmogrifa" wrote:
[...] The situation would be micing a baby grand [...] in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. We have the same problem in TV... gotta close the damn lid so it won't block sight lines. Our solution was to cut a little black block that holds the lid open about an inch or so, just enough to slide in a boom stand. We then hung an XY pair of KM184 inside. Exactly where we hung them depended on the sound we were after, but usually about mid span, maybe a foot back from the hammers. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
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#7
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Richard Crowley wrote: "transmogrifa" wrote ... I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. For what reason are you micing it? Reinforcement? Recording? What kind of music? The music type is what I would call "pop jazz." Stuff like Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett. The reason for the recording is as a prelim to studio recording with the idea of evaluating the material and possibly using one or two of the takes. It would during the regular performances of the artist during business hours. Small lounge setting. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#8
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#9
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On 4/20/05 10:38 PM, in article , "Richard
Crowley" wrote: Not sure why you would want padding under a PZM, kinda destroys the integrity of the reflective surface, etc. Mmmmmmm... If it's something like thin foam double-stick carpet tape on either side of 1/8" then Not Really, it will affect the shelf in the lower midrange a --LITTLE-- maybe, but the plate on the PZM itself takes care of the immediate bulk of stuff and the lid of the piano as extension deals with the lo end and the result is still pretty darned good over other alternatives. |
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#10
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On 4/21/05 12:35 AM, in article , "david"
wrote: In article . com, transmogrifa wrote: I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com For recording I'd use something other than a PZM. The Crown pzm's I own have a high end that's crappy for acoustic piano. I'd bet the Rat Shack ones aren't any better. There Are no RadShack PZM's (unless the re-introduced the line in the last year or so...) since CROWN pulled the license so they could make essentially the same thing under their own banner. Without the PZM and the Minimus 7's my visits to RS have pretty much vanished. |
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#11
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If the PZM is less than desirable and you have two of something
available make two cradles with gaffers (okay duct if you will) tape and secure two mics above the strings, you can point both at the hammers for more attack, or one toward the foot of the bass strings and the high side toward the hammers. Place the mic elements on the same plane regardless of the direction they are pointed. I use a 9 volt battery to "vent" the lid on the high side of the keyboard at the folding hinge, but that might be dangerous to the lid if people are going to sit on it unless you use three or more to support the top. |
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#12
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#13
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Richard Crowley wrote:
PZM inside the lid might be a possibility even if you can't have the lid open during business hours. Much better gain before feedback. Certainly a different "sound", but then we are completely in the dark about what kind of music, what you need, etc. etc. The isolation this affords is IME really pretty good. I was recording an accompaniment track after church. Wouldn't you know that right in the middle some %$#!!s walked in talking to each other, and walked around the piano and out the back door? I was sure that another take would be in order, but in fact the first take was fine. |
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#14
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Mike,
We get a terrific sound from a condenser mic that is wrapped in foam and secured by tape or rubber band (leaving the capsule exposed). You can set the microphone directly on the inside of the piano and adjust it accordingly. Specifically, we use a Crown CM-700. We tried several condenser mics and that gave us the best sound. squig transmogrifa wrote: I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#15
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transmogrifa wrote:
I know a ton of piano micing questions have been asked here but this one still seems unique and a review of them didn't seem to give a good answer. The situation would be micing a baby grand (a short scale piano, not sure if it is baby) in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. I thought about the PZM on the floor with some kind of padding underneath. I have the old radio shack PZM. I've done that in a few situations. It can work. Success depends on the SPL and nature of ambient sounds unrelated to piano music. -- ha |
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#16
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No and no... The only thing I've found 'duct' tape uniquely perfect
for is ... You are correct, I was merely substituting "duct" in the generic sense; like people that call soft drinks a coke, or they want a Xerox copy of something. People around here still come up and ask for a piece duct tape after I've been handing them a 2" roll of cloth gaff for years. This proves I should never take anyone's understanding of my intent for granted. |
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#17
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No and no... The only thing I've found 'duct' tape uniquely perfect
for is ... You are correct, I was merely substituting "duct" in the generic sense; like people that call soft drinks a coke, or they want a Xerox copy of something. People around here still come up and ask for a piece duct tape after I've been handing them a 2" roll of cloth gaff for 22 years. |
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#18
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No and no... The only thing I've found 'duct' tape uniquely perfect
for is ... You are correct, I was merely substituting "duct" in the generic sense; like people that call soft drinks a coke, or they want a Xerox copy of something. People around here still come up and ask for a piece duct tape after I've been handing them a 2" roll of cloth gaff for 22 years. |
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#19
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You also have to remember that there are lurkers here trying to learn
something about jobs they may either need to do now or in the future. So I don't think we want them going out and buying duct tape anymore than we'd want somebody using duct tape gaffing down our cables. Plus, if these same lurkers really want to know the cost of doing business, it's pretty appropriate to mention the proper equipment so they can do the pricing. You can buy a case of duct tape for the price of a few rolls of good gaffing tape. Not picking on you, just pointing out something that we often forget. There are undoubtedly a lot more lurkers here than posting newbies. I get a number of emails per week from lurkers about what we try to include in our posts, so I actually see some results by thinking outside of an OP's actual question. I also get called down on it once in a while! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "psalter" wrote in message ups.com... No and no... The only thing I've found 'duct' tape uniquely perfect for is ... You are correct, I was merely substituting "duct" in the generic sense; like people that call soft drinks a coke, or they want a Xerox copy of something. People around here still come up and ask for a piece duct tape after I've been handing them a 2" roll of cloth gaff for years. This proves I should never take anyone's understanding of my intent for granted. |
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#20
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Piano bar type of situation as I recall, which means no place to set drinks
if people sit around the piano. Plus, with glasses on the strings, the piano sounds funny! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Chel van Gennip" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:17 +0200, Lorin David Schultz wrote: "transmogrifa" wrote: [...] The situation would be micing a baby grand [...] in a club/bar atmosphere. The thing is this, I can't open the lid because it is an intimate atmosphere setting where people frequently come up and sit right at the piano and this would block the eye line of the player which is a no go. We have the same problem in TV... gotta close the damn lid so it won't block sight lines. Our solution was to cut a little black block that holds the lid open about an inch or so, just enough to slide in a boom stand. We then hung an XY pair of KM184 inside. Exactly where we hung them depended on the sound we were after, but usually about mid span, maybe a foot back from the hammers. The lid can be removed without problems, just 2 small pins. -- Chel van Gennip Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com |
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#22
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#23
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Ever seen Jerry Lewis' The Nutty Professor?
-- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Chel van Gennip" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:43:10 +0200, Roger W. Norman wrote: The lid can be removed without problems, just 2 small pins. Piano bar type of situation as I recall, which means no place to set drinks if people sit around the piano. Even with a closed lid, there is no place on the piano to set drinks. -- Chel van Gennip Visi Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com |
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