Hi. I have a D112 that I always use for kick drum miking which I'm
quite happy with. However, at times I find that one such mic isn't
enough for a kit with two kicks.. or if I'm recording two bass cabs,
etc. I'm thinking of purchasing another D112. Howere, the Shure Beta52
looks pretty interesting. I do like to have a variation of mics to
choose from. But should I use the same two mics for such applications
as double kick? I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable.. but I don't know if I should be getting that variation
solely from the playing and the sound of each kick.. or if a variation
in mic's affecting the sound is ok too.

wrote:
Hi. I have a D112 that I always use for kick drum miking which I'm
quite happy with. However, at times I find that one such mic isn't
enough for a kit with two kicks.. or if I'm recording two bass cabs,
etc. I'm thinking of purchasing another D112. Howere, the Shure Beta52
looks pretty interesting. I do like to have a variation of mics to
choose from. But should I use the same two mics for such applications
as double kick? I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable.. but I don't know if I should be getting that variation
solely from the playing and the sound of each kick.. or if a variation
in mic's affecting the sound is ok too.

The simple answer is duplication, get another D112.

However, something such as a Beta 52 or an AT AE2500 would be fine, too. The main thing you need to
be concerned with, obviously, is capturing the sound properly to tape/HD.

It really becomes a matter of choice, taste and what you're striving for. A 52 shouldn't be so
different as to be "bad" for the session. And variety is a good thing, too.

--fletch

If the drummer uses the same heads and tunes them the same and they are the
same size bass drum etc you will probably want identical mics. If the drums
are different though it' not necessarily a requirement to use identical
mics.

You may want to get another mic for bass that is a lot different than your
current one and then compare them for a while, then get a second of the one
that is most versatile so you have a pair.

I highly recommend the Audio Technica ATM25 for internal bass drum mic'ing.
( somewhere from 3 to 6 inches away from the head usually works for me )

--
John L Rice


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi. I have a D112 that I always use for kick drum miking which I'm
quite happy with. However, at times I find that one such mic isn't
enough for a kit with two kicks.. or if I'm recording two bass cabs,
etc. I'm thinking of purchasing another D112. Howere, the Shure Beta52
looks pretty interesting. I do like to have a variation of mics to
choose from. But should I use the same two mics for such applications
as double kick? I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable.. but I don't know if I should be getting that variation
solely from the playing and the sound of each kick.. or if a variation
in mic's affecting the sound is ok too.

In article .com,
wrote:

I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable..

Who decided that? What about (arguably more common currently) double
pedal players? Must they use two different style beaters? It depends on
the drummer, the song, and the intended vision. I'd usually choose the
same mic for the typical identical drum double bass kit if possible, but
it's been a while since I've personally seen two kick drums in a studio.

Funny, when I saw the topic, I expected a question about a double bass,
(an upright acoustic bass), not two bass drums.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com

Heh, I was expecting a question about upright bass too! :-)

The question of whether two double bass drums (or a double pedal) sound
the same or different is determined by the drummer and the music!

Some times the drummer wants the two drums (left and right pedals) to
sound as nearly alike as possible. The reason for this that he/she can
then use the two bass pedals to simulate playing very fast notes on a
single pedal.

The other case is where the drummer is using the one bass as a main
bass sound and then uses a totally different bass sound on the second
pedal to give accents which give a whole different character to the
same lick as played above on two identical sounding drums. Which sound
is "best" is a musical question to be answered by the performers.

Even with a double pedal it is often very hard to get an identical
sound out of both beaters on a single drum. So there are often cases
where both pedals are supposed to sound alike but don't because one
beater is more to one side etc. Some drummers who WANT two sounds
will use two different kinds of beaters even on a single drum setup.

So the mic bottom line for me would be as Jay suggests. Always use
identical mics and let the drummer tune in the different sounds if
desired.
If the drummer needs help, then you can start choosing other mic
combinations to help him get the sound. But start identical.

Like John I choose the ATM25. My kick drum (with double pedal...and I
might add I've carefully centered pedal so both beaters are off center
by the same amount) The ATM25 is mounted internally pretty much as he
says and does a GREAT job!

benj

"Jay-atldigi" wrote in message ...
In article .com,
wrote:

I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable..

If it were rock and roll, I'd probably prefer to deal with the comfort of using
a couple of mics that were the same... I'd expect the tuning of the drums
to be the sound the drummer wanted and the difference you speak of.
With a little drumming in my past, I venture that the most likely cause of
variations in sound would be the technique & playing style of the drummer.
Knowing that a couple of similar mics were used starting out, one could at
least be certain of getting a balanced view of what's different about the two
sounds.

Who decided that? What about (arguably more common currently) double
pedal players? Must they use two different style beaters? It depends on
the drummer, the song, and the intended vision. I'd usually choose the
same mic for the typical identical drum double bass kit if possible, but
it's been a while since I've personally seen two kick drums in a studio.

Funny, when I saw the topic, I expected a question about a double bass,
(an upright acoustic bass), not two bass drums.

Double pedals with single bass drums are just about all I've seen for the
past several years... and yet there's almost *invariably* a tonal difference
between notes struck from each of the pedals.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com

PS: I've been looking for what one or two different microphones people
would favor on the upright acoustic double bass. g

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

I guess I forgot to mention that I'm dealing mostly with metal or
hardcore type bands. My idea that kick drums shouldn't sound the same
is, I guess, from hearing such bands as Slayer in which you can hear
the two different kicks going back and forth (almost sounds like
they're different sizes or tuned differently sometimes). That's how I
like it to sound, as opposed to some other people that have the exact
same sound for each kick, almost sounding like a trigger or something..
so that the double bass ends up being this continuous, annoying,
headache inducing sound throughout the song.

In article .com,
wrote:
I guess I forgot to mention that I'm dealing mostly with metal or
hardcore type bands. My idea that kick drums shouldn't sound the same
is, I guess, from hearing such bands as Slayer in which you can hear
the two different kicks going back and forth (almost sounds like
they're different sizes or tuned differently sometimes). That's how I
like it to sound, as opposed to some other people that have the exact
same sound for each kick, almost sounding like a trigger or something..
so that the double bass ends up being this continuous, annoying,
headache inducing sound throughout the song.

My issue is that you can basically get only one kick drum sound out
of the D112. With something like an SM-7 or an RE-20 or even a 421,
you can do a lot of heavy equalization to get different drum sounds,
but the D112 is already so peaky there isn't much you can do with it.
Either you like the sound you get from it, or you use another mike, you
can't do much else.

With an RE-20 and a parametric you can make it sound a lot like a D112.
With a D112, you can only make it sound like a D112.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
I guess I forgot to mention that I'm dealing mostly with metal or
hardcore type bands. My idea that kick drums shouldn't sound the same
is, I guess, from hearing such bands as Slayer in which you can hear
the two different kicks going back and forth (almost sounds like
they're different sizes or tuned differently sometimes). That's how I
like it to sound, as opposed to some other people that have the exact
same sound for each kick, almost sounding like a trigger or something..
so that the double bass ends up being this continuous, annoying,
headache inducing sound throughout the song.

My issue is that you can basically get only one kick drum sound out
of the D112. With something like an SM-7 or an RE-20 or even a 421,
you can do a lot of heavy equalization to get different drum sounds,
but the D112 is already so peaky there isn't much you can do with it.
Either you like the sound you get from it, or you use another mike, you
can't do much else.

With an RE-20 and a parametric you can make it sound a lot like a D112.
With a D112, you can only make it sound like a D112.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

And while I don't own any of the mics Scott mentioned, ( definitely someday
though ), I agree with wanting to have a versatile mic and the ATM25 has
worked out very similarly for me as it seems to be easy to dial in a lot of
different sounds with EQ (click, boom and punch are all there if you need
them )

--
John L Rice

wrote:
Hi. I have a D112 that I always use for kick drum miking which I'm
quite happy with. However, at times I find that one such mic isn't
enough for a kit with two kicks.. or if I'm recording two bass cabs,
etc. I'm thinking of purchasing another D112. Howere, the Shure Beta52
looks pretty interesting. I do like to have a variation of mics to
choose from. But should I use the same two mics for such applications
as double kick? I know that a variation in the sound of two kick drums
is desirable.. but I don't know if I should be getting that variation
solely from the playing and the sound of each kick.. or if a variation
in mic's affecting the sound is ok too.


If you WANT both drums to sound different then, sure, go with different
mics, but keep in the mind that the Beta52 and the D112 are very
different beasts. The 52 is very deep sounding with a crisper high end
than the D112. The D112 will deliver much more attack and smack of the
bass drum, but not quite as much in thumpy low end. This may be the
effect that you want (i.e. one bass drum as a nice low main kick and the
other as accent).

The 52 is my main kick mic and i love it. It takes a little time to
figure out what it likes in terms of positioning, but once you're
familiar with it you'll love it.

Roach