Thought I'd throw a hook out here and see if there's any wisdom, sites,
about getting your disc off of a store shelf. I've been looking for some
very frank advice on it and found the landscape filled with raging herds of
bull****.

On 4/8/05 3:27 PM, in article qWA5e.927786$Xk.499421@pd7tw3no, "terry"
wrote:

Thought I'd throw a hook out here and see if there's any wisdom, sites,
about getting your disc off of a store shelf. I've been looking for some
very frank advice on it and found the landscape filled with raging herds of
bull****.

It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new', 'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

They involve NOTHING so much as real legwork, preparation and a
full-time-job amount of attention.

Blind-mail presspacks are a waste for the ROOI

E-mail anythings are worth the paper they're printed on.

If you are the artist and have nobody on tap(paid) to Do these things, the
best you can do to move product is tour.
WHEN you tour your typical gig follows this

UNLOAD VAN
SOUND CHECK/DINNER/SET UP SALES TABLE IN LOBBY
(in either order)
THEN-
SIT AT TABLE AND SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO FIRST 1/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO 2/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
Until no more prospective buyers.
Pack and load and drive on.

This assumes you or somebody on payroll is attending to your next 12 months
of bookings at the same time.

SSJVCmag wrote:
It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new',
'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

They involve NOTHING so much as real legwork, preparation and a
full-time-job amount of attention.

Blind-mail presspacks are a waste for the ROOI

E-mail anythings are worth the paper they're printed on.

If you are the artist and have nobody on tap(paid) to Do these
things, the
best you can do to move product is tour.
WHEN you tour your typical gig follows this

UNLOAD VAN
SOUND CHECK/DINNER/SET UP SALES TABLE IN LOBBY
(in either order)
THEN-
SIT AT TABLE AND SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO FIRST 1/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO 2/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
Until no more prospective buyers.
Pack and load and drive on.

This assumes you or somebody on payroll is attending to your next 12
months
of bookings at the same time.

The headline Touring acts make 1/2 their money from
merchandising, so you can sell a lot more than just your CD at the
Table too. T-Shirts, Coffee Cups, Posters, whatever. Having good
graphics and a logo that you can slap on merchandise and sell will give
you an edge.

Check out the graphics on the slambovia.com website. The
songwriter Joziah Longo does all the artwork himself, posters/album
art/ website, so besides being voted the best songwriter in the Hudson
Valley region of NY he has a great edge in that he has powerful visuals
to help him market his band/product.

You do have to effectively exploit that kind of talent though, if
you want it to pay off.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio/Fox News/M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new',
'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

Thanks for the info. I am curious, perhaps in a few short words, how would
you define these three areas. I honestly don't know the difference between
marketing and publicity, or exposure.

Capital intensive, Will. A fledgling artist can't fork over the money for
Tees and hats and what-have-you, and certainly can't man the tables all the
time since they need to perform. If you can't carry your inventory back to
the stage with you, then it will be gone without any money by the time you
get back.

Then again, wasn't it Bob Ohlsson that said any musician could sell $100
worth of CDs on a street corner on any given day? Perhaps that's food and
gas so you can make the next gig.

I think John's real point was that one has to persevere if they wish to make
it in the world of music, and that means wearing any hat necessary in order
to make the dream come true. The real question is what is the person's
dream?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...
SSJVCmag wrote:
It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new',
'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

They involve NOTHING so much as real legwork, preparation and a
full-time-job amount of attention.

Blind-mail presspacks are a waste for the ROOI

E-mail anythings are worth the paper they're printed on.

If you are the artist and have nobody on tap(paid) to Do these
things, the
best you can do to move product is tour.
WHEN you tour your typical gig follows this

UNLOAD VAN
SOUND CHECK/DINNER/SET UP SALES TABLE IN LOBBY
(in either order)
THEN-
SIT AT TABLE AND SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO FIRST 1/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO 2/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
Until no more prospective buyers.
Pack and load and drive on.

This assumes you or somebody on payroll is attending to your next 12
months
of bookings at the same time.

The headline Touring acts make 1/2 their money from
merchandising, so you can sell a lot more than just your CD at the
Table too. T-Shirts, Coffee Cups, Posters, whatever. Having good
graphics and a logo that you can slap on merchandise and sell will give
you an edge.

Check out the graphics on the slambovia.com website. The
songwriter Joziah Longo does all the artwork himself, posters/album
art/ website, so besides being voted the best songwriter in the Hudson
Valley region of NY he has a great edge in that he has powerful visuals
to help him market his band/product.

You do have to effectively exploit that kind of talent though, if
you want it to pay off.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio/Fox News/M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Marketing is creating the buzz, publicity is being the buzz, and exposure is
proving the buzz.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"terry" wrote in message
news:N5X5e.937683$Xk.848599@pd7tw3no...


It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new',
'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

Thanks for the info. I am curious, perhaps in a few short words, how
would
you define these three areas. I honestly don't know the difference
between
marketing and publicity, or exposure.

Roger W. Norman wrote:
Capital intensive, Will. A fledgling artist can't fork over the
money for
Tees and hats and what-have-you, and certainly can't man the tables
all the
time since they need to perform. If you can't carry your inventory
back to
the stage with you, then it will be gone without any money by the
time you
get back.

That's what *fans* are for, even if in the beginning it's your
sister and brother, or you can hire someone and you give them a cut.
If you really have something as a band you can find at least one kid
who will help you out at gigs with *something*; your marketing, help
with gear, maybe learn to do your sound, if people believe in you they
*will* help you. Check out the guest book comments on the
slambovia.com website. Joziah has fans, I understand people have even
lent him their vacation homes so his band could work on new material
and do some location recording.

Anyway if the image/logo of your band is in the possession of
your fans, you will multiply the effect of any live exposure many many
times over, without that or a tape at least people tend to forget
pretty quick. Helps if your band is ever gonna reach a critical mass
I think.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..."

Roger W. Norman wrote:
Capital intensive, Will. A fledgling artist can't fork over the
money for
Tees and hats and what-have-you, and certainly can't man the tables
all the
time since they need to perform. If you can't carry your inventory
back to
the stage with you, then it will be gone without any money by the
time you
get back.


Most bands on small budget tours will either get the Tour manager to
do merch, or hire a local to sit at the merch table for a couple of
hours. getting $15 for a T-shirt that costs $3 to make ( bulk 1000
order ) and getting $10 or more for the CD makes it worth it.

If you do the advance work and get your CD & press kit to the
appropriate local radio shows, you get peoople at the gig. ( If the
promoter has done this )




Then again, wasn't it Bob Ohlsson that said any musician could sell
$100
worth of CDs on a street corner on any given day? Perhaps that's
food and
gas so you can make the next gig.

I think John's real point was that one has to persevere if they wish
to make
it in the world of music, and that means wearing any hat necessary in
order
to make the dream come true. The real question is what is the
person's
dream?


oups.com...
SSJVCmag wrote:
It's involves a very few concepts that are in no way 'new',
'revolutionary',
or 'e-anything'.
They are in any and all combinations:
Marketting
Publicity
Exposure

They involve NOTHING so much as real legwork, preparation and a
full-time-job amount of attention.


But all this kind off work needs to be delegated. You can't be in
enough cities at the same time to do all this. You must get material
into the hands of local promoters who publicise. You can't tour slowly,
Van rentals are by the day, dark nights still mean food and hotels.


Blind-mail presspacks are a waste for the ROOI

E-mail anythings are worth the paper they're printed on.

If you are the artist and have nobody on tap(paid) to Do these
things, the
best you can do to move product is tour.
WHEN you tour your typical gig follows this

UNLOAD VAN
SOUND CHECK/DINNER/SET UP SALES TABLE IN LOBBY
(in either order)
THEN-
SIT AT TABLE AND SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO FIRST 1/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
LEAVE TABLE, HIT STAGE, DO 2/2 SHOW
RETURN TO TABLE, SMILE/GREET/SIGN/SELL PRODUCT
Until no more prospective buyers.
Pack and load and drive on.

This assumes you or somebody on payroll is attending to your next
12
months
of bookings at the same time.


bands usualy start by bringing a Front of House guy first off, or a
tour manager. You can get a local to do merch, someone from the club.
Just do an inventory when you give them the merch, and when you get it
back.

I heard of a couple of guys who made 80,000 UK pounds in a first year,
selling their own drum&bass album themselves . . . they just got it
pressed and walked around independant record stores leaving a few
albums at each, and returning a month later to collect the money and
leave more albums.

Chris
http:www.chris-melchior.com/strings.htm (real strings for realistic
prices).

In article .com writes:

I heard of a couple of guys who made 80,000 UK pounds in a first year,
selling their own drum&bass album themselves . . . they just got it
pressed and walked around independant record stores leaving a few
albums at each, and returning a month later to collect the money and
leave more albums.

Good luck with that in the US. There are a few independent record
stores that will take independent releases on consignment, but unless
you just leave a coffee can with a note saying "if you take one of
these CDs, leave a $10 bill in the can" the stores may not want to
deal with the bookkeeping.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo