I just picked up an H910 without a user manual, so I'm trying to make
sense of this thing. Is it normal that the Output 2 signal NOT be pitch
shifted? If the Feedback control is fully CCW I get no effected sound
from Out 2. But, if I turn up the Feedback control, Out 2 outputs a
pitch-shifted "climbing" signal.

Also, I can't detect any discernible delay when selecting the various
delay settings on Out 2.

Oh, and the Out 1 pitch-shifted signal emits a periodic "pop" at a rate
proportional to the amount of pitch-shift dialed in. Is this normal?

FWIW: The PS rails are all the correct voltage, and have practically no
ripple (i.e., less than a few millivolts). And the Ref A control has no
effect on anything that I can hear.

Thanks,
Sam

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by

I just picked up an H910 without a user manual, so I'm trying to make
sense of this thing. Is it normal that the Output 2 signal NOT be pitch
shifted? If the Feedback control is fully CCW I get no effected sound
from Out 2. But, if I turn up the Feedback control, Out 2 outputs a
pitch-shifted "climbing" signal.

Output 2 is "delay only", output 1 is the harmonizer output.

Also, I can't detect any discernible delay when selecting the various
delay settings on Out 2.

You should be getting a delay vs. the dry signal... if not something might indeed be broken

Oh, and the Out 1 pitch-shifted signal emits a periodic "pop" at a rate
proportional to the amount of pitch-shift dialed in. Is this normal?

Yep... that's quite normal.

Hey there--

Out 2 on a 910 is delay only--no pitch shift.

The other symptoms you describe suggest to me that the unit is mildly
ill--probably just out of alignment. I don't know the procedure well
enough to describe it, but I do know that it involves a scope, signal
generator and voltmeter. Have you tried contacting Eventide?

--gmr

Thanks for the comments, Gordon! I have considered buying the
manual/schematics from Eventide, but at $25 I thought I'd see how far
out of whack this thing is before plunking down the cash.

Even if it is out of alignment it's plenty useful as is, but I want to
bring back to spec. I've got the test equipment(scope, meters, sig gen,
freq counter, etc), and I've made some adjustments, but the Ref A pot
(internal control on PCB) seems to have no discernible affect, and the
"thumping" I mentioned earlier doesn't seem right. Maybe I should just
shell out the $25 and be done with it.

Any thoughts on the "thump"?

Thanks,
Sam





Gordon Rice wrote:
Hey there--

Out 2 on a 910 is delay only--no pitch shift.

The other symptoms you describe suggest to me that the unit is mildly
ill--probably just out of alignment. I don't know the procedure well
enough to describe it, but I do know that it involves a scope, signal
generator and voltmeter. Have you tried contacting Eventide?

--gmr

wrote in message oups.com...
Thanks for the comments, Gordon! I have considered buying the
manual/schematics from Eventide, but at $25 I thought I'd see how far
out of whack this thing is before plunking down the cash.

Even if it is out of alignment it's plenty useful as is, but I want to
bring back to spec. I've got the test equipment(scope, meters, sig gen,
freq counter, etc), and I've made some adjustments, but the Ref A pot
(internal control on PCB) seems to have no discernible affect, and the
"thumping" I mentioned earlier doesn't seem right. Maybe I should just
shell out the $25 and be done with it.

Any thoughts on the "thump"?

Thanks,
Sam





Gordon Rice wrote:
Hey there--

Out 2 on a 910 is delay only--no pitch shift.

The other symptoms you describe suggest to me that the unit is mildly
ill--probably just out of alignment. I don't know the procedure well
enough to describe it, but I do know that it involves a scope, signal
generator and voltmeter. Have you tried contacting Eventide?

--gmr


I'd shell out the $25 if you can't find it on line. IIRC, this is essentially
an 'in-line' MONO unit, so one output is the dry signal and the other is
the processed signal.

DM

AT wrote:
was it not that the second out put was optional?

you would have to install an extra board?

my memory fails ( it's been 20 years i sold mine)

best
at


Mine has the I/O board for Output 2, and I'm getting audio out of it...
I just didn't know if I should be getting *pitch-shifted* audio out of
it. I've already swapped all 3 of the compression/expansion boards like
a shell game, but it didn't make any difference. And when you swap
boards you have to adjust the 4 pots on the compandor board. Lots of
fun when you don't know the alignment procedure- basically turn pots
until it sounds best.

Thanks,
Sam

In article writes:

Wrote:

Also, I can't detect any discernible delay when selecting the various
delay settings on Out 2.

You should be getting a delay vs. the dry signal... if not something
might indeed be broken

Given that Output 2 is delay only (not delay+input) unless you (Sam)
monitored both the input and Out 2, you wouldn't be able to tell that
the output was delayed.

Oh, and the Out 1 pitch-shifted signal emits a periodic "pop" at a rate
proportional to the amount of pitch-shift dialed in. Is this normal?

Yep... that's quite normal.

Not good, but normal. g



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Fletcher,

This is good info. And I've gotten hold of a schematic within the last
few hours, so the signal flow should become pretty apparent once I get
a chance to sit down and study it. I believe the Output 2 delay may be
on the fritz, because I can't HEAR a delay. I should be able to easily
hear the 82.5 mS max delay of Out 2, but I don't hear any change.

Oh, I forgot to mention earlier that I was getting an extreme whine
when in Delay Only mode, with the FB turned up past about 9:00. I
played with the compandor board adjustments and the internal FB pot,
and finally got it tamed, but I suspect it's probably far from optimum
as far as internal gain structure goes.

Thanks,
Sam

was it not that the second out put was optional?

you would have to install an extra board?

my memory fails ( it's been 20 years i sold mine)

best
at

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:WQE0e.13210$wL6.1369@trnddc03...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the comments, Gordon! I have considered buying the
manual/schematics from Eventide, but at $25 I thought I'd see how
far
out of whack this thing is before plunking down the cash.

Even if it is out of alignment it's plenty useful as is, but I
want to
bring back to spec. I've got the test equipment(scope, meters, sig
gen,
freq counter, etc), and I've made some adjustments, but the Ref A
pot
(internal control on PCB) seems to have no discernible affect, and
the
"thumping" I mentioned earlier doesn't seem right. Maybe I should
just
shell out the $25 and be done with it.

Any thoughts on the "thump"?

Thanks,
Sam





Gordon Rice wrote:
Hey there--

Out 2 on a 910 is delay only--no pitch shift.

The other symptoms you describe suggest to me that the unit is
mildly
ill--probably just out of alignment. I don't know the procedure
well
enough to describe it, but I do know that it involves a scope,
signal
generator and voltmeter. Have you tried contacting Eventide?

--gmr


I'd shell out the $25 if you can't find it on line. IIRC, this is
essentially
an 'in-line' MONO unit, so one output is the dry signal and the
other is
the processed signal.

DM

Mike,

I wasn't monitoring both channels at once, so it's possible that it's
working right and I'm just not hearing it. I'll stick a scope probe
aross each channel and check if I can SEE it since I don't have a mixer
or stereo amp in my workshop right now.

The thing that made me think it wasn't delaying is that when I ran a
guitar through it (yes, I DO keep a guitar in the workshop) I couldn't
detect a delay between the time I plucked the string and the time it
sounded. Also, the FB control has no effect in the Delay Only mode.

Someone was nice enough to email me a schematic, but in the short time
I've spent perusing it I haven't been able to determine whether the
behavior I've described is all normal and expected. This schem doesn't
show the Output 2 compandor board either... weird.

Sam

In article .com writes:

I wasn't monitoring both channels at once, so it's possible that it's
working right and I'm just not hearing it. I'll stick a scope probe
aross each channel and check if I can SEE it since I don't have a mixer
or stereo amp in my workshop right now.

This may be obvious, but you'll need a dual-trace scope. Put one probe
on each channel. Sync on one channel and see if the other one is
offset along the time scale.

The thing that made me think it wasn't delaying is that when I ran a
guitar through it (yes, I DO keep a guitar in the workshop) I couldn't
detect a delay between the time I plucked the string and the time it
sounded. Also, the FB control has no effect in the Delay Only mode.

Well, that's a good test if the delay is long enough. You'd need at
least 100 milliseconds in order to be able to hear it easily.

Someone was nice enough to email me a schematic, but in the short time
I've spent perusing it I haven't been able to determine whether the
behavior I've described is all normal and expected. This schem doesn't
show the Output 2 compandor board either... weird.

Perhaps a phone call to Eventide is in order. First thing you should
find out is whether or not the delay-only output is an option, and if
so, if your unit has the option installed. It's quite possible that
they put the connector on all the chassis that they built, and on the
units without the delay output option, just wired it to the input so
you'd get something out of there.

Does the main output indeed give you a pitch shift? That's the
important part.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by

I believe the Output 2 delay may be
on the fritz, because I can't HEAR a delay. I should be able to easily
hear the 82.5 mS max delay of Out 2, but I don't hear any change.

I'll bet you even money that if you check out the output of 2 in relation to the direct signal you'll hear a delay. As delays the things weren't too bad in the clarity department [the homitaztion of de evenrude 910 de-flatter definitely had room for improvement... but the delay was always pretty much the real deal].

Reference return to source and I'm almost positive you'll hear the thing working... if not, then chances are pretty damn good it's broken.

Peace

Mike Rivers wrote:

Perhaps a phone call to Eventide is in order. First thing you should
find out is whether or not the delay-only output is an option, and if
so, if your unit has the option installed. It's quite possible that
they put the connector on all the chassis that they built, and on the
units without the delay output option, just wired it to the input so
you'd get something out of there.

After considerable scrutiny of the schematic vs. the PCBs in my 910 I
have been struck by this incredible truth: To be most effective in
troubleshooting, the revision of the schematic should match the revision
of the hardware. In my case I've got Rev D H/W, but Rev C prints. Guess
I'll give Eventide a call after all.

Does the main output indeed give you a pitch shift? That's the
important part.

It's pitch-shifting, and I think it's pretty much working correctly, but
I really need to align it to factory spec.
I'm really Mike Rivers )


BTW, is the 910 SUPPOSED to smell like a diaper pail? I'm guessing no,
but mine does. Really. It was pretty grungy inside, with clumps of nasty
dirt and silt-looking debris. Maybe it was in a sewage-contaminated
flood at some point.

Sam


http://mysite.verizon.net/resoamqr/s...ndelectronics/

Fletcher wrote:

Wrote:

I believe the Output 2 delay may be
on the fritz, because I can't HEAR a delay. I should be able to easily
hear the 82.5 mS max delay of Out 2, but I don't hear any change.


I'll bet you even money that if you check out the output of 2 in
relation to the direct signal you'll hear a delay. As delays the
things weren't too bad in the clarity department [the homitaztion of de
evenrude 910 de-flatter definitely had room for improvement... but the
delay was always pretty much the real deal].

But with the FB up this would be a great piece for all those Kraftwerk
cover bands out there.

Reference return to source and I'm almost positive you'll hear the
thing working... if not, then chances are pretty damn good it's
broken.

Peace



Yeah, I passively mixed the 2 outs together with a couple of resistors
just to see if I could hear the delay, and I could. I didn't have the
direct signal mixed in, but I could hear the delay of Out2 relative to Out1.

Sam

I too would be interested in finding schematics or someone to service
my H-910. A couple of years ago I talked to Eventide at the NAMM show
and I was told they were no longer supporting this piece. Mine outputs
as much hash as harmonized signal.

From memory, one output is delay only, the other is delay plus pitch shift.
You can press multiple delay time buttons in at the same time for a delay
time of the sum of the depressed buttons.



Gareth.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I just picked up an H910 without a user manual, so I'm trying to make
sense of this thing. Is it normal that the Output 2 signal NOT be pitch
shifted? If the Feedback control is fully CCW I get no effected sound
from Out 2. But, if I turn up the Feedback control, Out 2 outputs a
pitch-shifted "climbing" signal.

Also, I can't detect any discernible delay when selecting the various
delay settings on Out 2.

Oh, and the Out 1 pitch-shifted signal emits a periodic "pop" at a rate
proportional to the amount of pitch-shift dialed in. Is this normal?

FWIW: The PS rails are all the correct voltage, and have practically no
ripple (i.e., less than a few millivolts). And the Ref A control has no
effect on anything that I can hear.

Thanks,
Sam

Gareth Magennis wrote:

From memory, one output is delay only, the other is delay plus pitch shift.
You can press multiple delay time buttons in at the same time for a delay
time of the sum of the depressed buttons.



Gareth.


Thanks for the reply, Gareth. I've got it working pretty well now, but
I'm still a little unsure about a few things. Do you know how the
Anti-Feedback works? Is it supposed to shift the pitch only in the
presence of feedback? As far as I can tell, it only seems to work the
same as the Manual mode, except that it has a very limited range of
around 80-100% instead of 50 to 200% in manual.

Thanks,
Sam

Gareth Magennis wrote:

From memory, one output is delay only, the other is delay plus pitch
shift.
You can press multiple delay time buttons in at the same time for a
delay
time of the sum of the depressed buttons.



Gareth.


Thanks for the reply, Gareth. I've got it working pretty well now, but
I'm still a little unsure about a few things. Do you know how the
Anti-Feedback works? Is it supposed to shift the pitch only in the
presence of feedback? As far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything
automatically- it just seems to work the same as the Manual mode, except
that it has a very limited range of around 80-100% instead of 50 to 200%
in manual.

Thanks,
Sam

In article writes:

Do you know how the
Anti-Feedback works? Is it supposed to shift the pitch only in the
presence of feedback? As far as I can tell, it only seems to work the
same as the Manual mode, except that it has a very limited range of
around 80-100% instead of 50 to 200% in manual.

Phil Allison is the authority on this. It doesn't sense feedback, it
works full time, shifting the **frequency** of the input (which
includes feedback howling). Since the next turn around the system, the
feedback is at a different frequency than that of the physical
resonance that started it, it may be far off the resonant curve so
that it's no longer boosted enough to continue the feedback. And if it
doesn't work the first time around, maybe the second time around will
get it off the peak of the curve. Or the third,

It was an idea that works in theory but there are some limitations in
practice that rendered it not the magic, universal solution to quell
feedback.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:


Do you know how the
Anti-Feedback works? Is it supposed to shift the pitch only in the
presence of feedback? As far as I can tell, it only seems to work the
same as the Manual mode, except that it has a very limited range of
around 80-100% instead of 50 to 200% in manual.


Phil Allison is the authority on this. It doesn't sense feedback, it
works full time, shifting the **frequency** of the input (which
includes feedback howling). Since the next turn around the system, the
feedback is at a different frequency than that of the physical
resonance that started it, it may be far off the resonant curve so
that it's no longer boosted enough to continue the feedback. And if it
doesn't work the first time around, maybe the second time around will
get it off the peak of the curve. Or the third,

It was an idea that works in theory but there are some limitations in
practice that rendered it not the magic, universal solution to quell
feedback.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike,

My intitial assumption was that it is supposed to work as you've
described. However, since mine doesn't automatically vary the pitch when
in A-F mode I wondered if maybe it only varied pitch when feedback
occured... I thought maybe it only kicked in when the comparator circuit
for the input level crossed its threshold.

But, if I understand correctly, it sounds like it's essentially a very
slow flanger or chorus... If this is the case, then I probably have a
dead LFO.

Does this sound about right?

Thanks,
Sam

In article _hI2e.25910$wL6.4990@trnddc03 writes:

My intitial assumption was that it is supposed to work as you've
described. However, since mine doesn't automatically vary the pitch when
in A-F mode I wondered if maybe it only varied pitch when feedback
occured... I thought maybe it only kicked in when the comparator circuit
for the input level crossed its threshold.

That would be interesting, but I suspect rather unnerving to listen
to.

But, if I understand correctly, it sounds like it's essentially a very
slow flanger or chorus... If this is the case, then I probably have a
dead LFO.

No, it wouldn't be like a flanger or chorus. Those vary the pitch as a
function of time. The feedback suppressor shifts the frequency by a
fixed amount. For instance if 500 Hz was going in, 510 Hz would come
out. If 2500 Hz went in, 2510 Hz would come out. It's nothing that you
can hear by listening only to the output, you need to hear (or
measure) the input and the output.

If you have an oscilloscope with an external horizontal input, you
could connect the vertical input to the input source and the
horizontal input to the "anti-feedback" output. You'd see a Lissaujous
pattern that showed a phase shift that varied with the input
frequency.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article _hI2e.25910$wL6.4990@trnddc03
writes:

My intitial assumption was that it is supposed to work as you've
described. However, since mine doesn't automatically vary the pitch
when
in A-F mode I wondered if maybe it only varied pitch when feedback
occured... I thought maybe it only kicked in when the comparator
circuit
for the input level crossed its threshold.

That would be interesting, but I suspect rather unnerving to listen
to.

Yeah, I suppose it WOULD be rather "interesting", and probably not in a
good way.



But, if I understand correctly, it sounds like it's essentially a
very
slow flanger or chorus... If this is the case, then I probably have
a
dead LFO.

No, it wouldn't be like a flanger or chorus. Those vary the pitch as
a
function of time.

Yes, that's what I assumed it was supposed to do. I assumed it was
intended to create a "moving target" to throw the feedback off its path
by incorporating an extremely slow LFO so that the change wouldn't be
audible, or at least not *easily* audible.


The feedback suppressor shifts the frequency by a
fixed amount. For instance if 500 Hz was going in, 510 Hz would come
out. If 2500 Hz went in, 2510 Hz would come out. It's nothing that
you
can hear by listening only to the output, you need to hear (or
measure) the input and the output.

I hope I'm not missing something that SHOULD be glaringly obvious, but
how does this differ from the regular pitch-shift mode (other than the
A-F mode has a relatively limited range of pitch-shift)?


Thanks,
Sam

In article .com writes:

Yes, that's what I assumed it was supposed to do. I assumed it was
intended to create a "moving target" to throw the feedback off its path
by incorporating an extremely slow LFO so that the change wouldn't be
audible, or at least not *easily* audible.

Nope, not necessary. You only need to shift the frequency out of the
frequency range where the system gain (which includes the air) exceeds
unity.

I hope I'm not missing something that SHOULD be glaringly obvious, but
how does this differ from the regular pitch-shift mode (other than the
A-F mode has a relatively limited range of pitch-shift)?

There was a lengthly discussion here several months ago (ostensibly in
regard to frequency-shifting feedback suppression) which drifted to
the correct definitions of frequency (a physical characteristic) and
pitch (a musical parameter) and how they were not the same.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo