Hey all.

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
my research with? I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a brief
history of the earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.
Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of the
techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles available
over here would be preferred!

Thanks in advance,
Ben.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:57:23 +0000, Ben Bayliss
wrote:

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.

In America, Mercury adopted a variation for the second most
famous orchestral recordings ever.

"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

Chris Hornbeck
"I just don't think it's right to have a club like this.
It ain't in the Bible," said Gary Colwell, 18, a brick mason
who grew up in the area. "We see them walking around holding
hands, and it makes everybody feel uncomfortable."

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.


Thanks for the quick reply - don't worry, I'll be looking a lot at the
Decca tree! As well as being, as you say, British and historical, I'm
fortunate enough to have access to a studio that uses one day in day
out. They've already agreed to let me take photos and have a mock
interview with one of the engineers.

Cheers,
Ben.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:26:58 +0000, Ben Bayliss
wrote:

They've already agreed to let me take photos and have a mock
interview with one of the engineers.

Please don't mock the engineeers.

Chris Hornbeck
"I just don't think it's right to have a club like this.
It ain't in the Bible," said Gary Colwell, 18, a brick mason
who grew up in the area. "We see them walking around holding
hands, and it makes everybody feel uncomfortable."

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...

You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.

In America, Mercury adopted a variation for the second most
famous orchestral recordings ever.

I'm not sure I'd describe what Mercury did (in their "Living Presence"
recordings) as a variation on the Decca Tree. The Mercury recordings
essentially used three omni mics, forward-facing, fairly wide apart, and
equidistant from the orchestra, whereas the Tree used mics with very
specific directional characteristics, not as far apart, with the outer ones
facing outward, and the center closer to the orchestra than the sides.

Incidentally, for many of RCA Victor's "Living Stereo" recordings
(immortalized as shaded dog pressings) they used the Mercury mic positions,
at least in Chicago's Orchestra Hall.

Peace,
Paul

Chris Hornbeck wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:57:23 +0000, Ben Bayliss

You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.

It was really an attempt to take advantage of a deficiency in the
M-50 microphones, if you want to think about that.

In America, Mercury adopted a variation for the second most
famous orchestral recordings ever.

No! The spaced triad is NOT even a little bit related to the Decca
tree. It has no phase coherency at all for one thing, which is why
all those Mercury recordings sound so deep... much more so than a
real orchestra.

There is a good tutorial on stereophony on www.josephson.com, but if
the original poster is in the UK, he should look up the BBC publication
"Microphones."

"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course, you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that
cupboard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

There is a good tutorial on stereophony on www.josephson.com, but if
the original poster is in the UK, he should look up the BBC publication
"Microphones."

"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course,
you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of
that
cupboard.

The ear can't hear as high as that
Still, it ought to please any passing bat.

Peace,
Paul

In article writes:

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course, you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that
cupboard.

I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull
input-output.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article
,
"Paul Stamler" wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

There is a good tutorial on stereophony on www.josephson.com, but if
the original poster is in the UK, he should look up the BBC publication
"Microphones."

"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course,
you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of
that
cupboard.

The ear can't hear as high as that
Still, it ought to please any passing bat.

Peace,
Paul

Don't forget to stimulate that 8th sense ...

--
Joakim Wendel
Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply.

My homepage : http://violinist.nu

On 14 Mar 2005 13:33:47 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull
input-output.

The melody of "Slow Train" is stuck in my head. Make it stop!

And to Scott and Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mister Smartypantses.
Of course you're right, but how's come nobody's bitten on the
"second most famous" bit? Nobody cares, is why. Sob!

Chris Hornbeck
"I just don't think it's right to have a club like this.
It ain't in the Bible," said Gary Colwell, 18, a brick mason
who grew up in the area. "We see them walking around holding
hands, and it makes everybody feel uncomfortable."

Ben Bayliss wrote:
Hey all.

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper
with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a
library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

Hi Ben
I have recently returned from recording orchestras in Berlin, Moscow
and Bratislava.
I used a combination of techniques for I was recording for 5.1. If you
would like to see my notes email me at
all the best
kevin

Ben Bayliss wrote:
Hey all.

*snip*

Thanks everyone for your suggestions so far, I'll be sure to check them
all out. Yesterday I bought a copy of Geoff Martin's online book which
is proving excellent reading so far and giving me some good ideas.

Keep the ideas coming!

Ben.

Matrixmusic wrote:
Hi Ben

I have recently returned from recording orchestras in Berlin, Moscow
and Bratislava.
I used a combination of techniques for I was recording for 5.1. If you
would like to see my notes email me at
all the best
kevin


Thanks very much - YGM!

B

Chris Hornbeck wrote in
:

But how's come nobody's bitten on the
"second most famous" bit? Nobody cares, is why. Sob!

Because I assumed that if it's the most famous, I'm already supposed to
know about it. And I don't want to admit that I don't.

So what's the most famous orchestral recordings ever?

My guess is the Stokowski/Philadephia recordings for Fantasia.

need some help with these references, please

"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course,
you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom
of that
cupboard.

The ear can't hear as high as that
Still, it ought to please any passing bat.

I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull
input-output.

Don't forget to stimulate that 8th sense ..

dale

The AES archive of articles is worth checking out, as well as the AES
books of compiled papers on microphones and stereo techniques.

http://www.aes.org/publications/anth.cfm

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

Ben Bayliss wrote:
Hey all.

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
my research with? I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a brief
history of the earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.
Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of the
techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles available
over here would be preferred!

Thanks in advance,
Ben.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:26:58 +0000, Ben Bayliss
wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply - don't worry, I'll be looking a lot at the
Decca tree! As well as being, as you say, British and historical, I'm
fortunate enough to have access to a studio that uses one day in day
out. They've already agreed to let me take photos and have a mock
interview with one of the engineers.

How will it be a mock interview?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Carey Carlan wrote:

So what's the most famous orchestral recordings ever?

My guess is the Stokowski/Philadephia recordings for Fantasia.

That would do it. I was thinking of the Toscanini recording of Beethoven's
Fifth first, though.

But I bet that in terms of total record sales, the best-selling classical
album is some cheese-whiz rendition of the Four Seasons.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

dale wrote:
need some help with these references, please

The song is "High Fidelity" by Flanders and Swann. It is an absolutely
essential reference for anyone in the audio field, and it should be
thoroughly kept in mind whenever dealing with audio sales people.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
dale wrote:
need some help with these references, please

The song is "High Fidelity" by Flanders and Swann. It is an absolutely
essential reference for anyone in the audio field, and it should be
thoroughly kept in mind whenever dealing with audio sales people.

The actual title is "Song of Reproduction"; it's found on "At the Drop of a
Hat" (Angel), reissued on "The Compleat Flanders & Swann" (EMI).

Peace,
Paul

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Carey Carlan wrote:

So what's the most famous orchestral recordings ever?

My guess is the Stokowski/Philadephia recordings for Fantasia.

That would do it. I was thinking of the Toscanini recording of
Beethoven's
Fifth first, though.

But I bet that in terms of total record sales, the best-selling classical
album is some cheese-whiz rendition of the Four Seasons.

In LPs, at least, the best-selling classical album was Van Cliburn's "My
Favorite Chopin" on RCA Victor. These days, I'd guess "The Three Tenors".

Peace,
Paul

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:37:38 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
wrote:

The AES archive of articles is worth checking out, as well as the AES
books of compiled papers on microphones and stereo techniques.

Does anybody have a spare of the Microphone Anthology that
they'd be willing to part with? Thanks,

Chris Hornbeck
"That's where may forebears came from. Three of them
anyway. Who's been sleeping in my porridge?" -F&S

|Hey all.

Merry Christmas!

|For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
|the above title.

Hmmm, your title suggests? Indoor, outdoor, etc?

|Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
|application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
|of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

I believe the Germans were the progenitors of microphone useage
in the orchestral setting. How about comparing and contrasting
UK, USA and Germans?

|Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
|my research with?

Library search

"biographies + Recording The Orchestra"
"indexes + Recording The Orchestra"
"abstracts + + Recording The Orchestra"
and so forth

|I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a |brief history of the
|earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.

Hmmm, I think the earliest orchestral recordings came out on the
Berliner disc...possibly more so French, UK.

|Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of
|the techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles
|available over here would be preferred!

The Russian's were quite underrated -----take a looksie at them.

|Thanks in advance,
|Ben.

Good luck in your research you gonna have your hands full.
Stay focused and proofread, proofread, proofread.
Peace and Love! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

|Hey all.

Merry Christmas!

|For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
|the above title.

Hmmm, your title suggests? Indoor, outdoor, etc?

|Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
|application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
|of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

I believe the Germans were the progenitors of microphone useage
in the orchestral setting. How about comparing and contrasting
UK, USA and Germans?

|Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
|my research with?

Library search

"biographies + Recording The Orchestra"
"indexes + Recording The Orchestra"
"abstracts + + Recording The Orchestra"
and so forth

|I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a |brief history of the
|earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.

Hmmm, I think the earliest orchestral recordings came out on the
Berliner disc...possibly more so French, UK.

|Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of
|the techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles
|available over here would be preferred!

The Russian's were quite underrated -----take a looksie at them.

|Thanks in advance,
|Ben.

Good luck in your research you gonna have your hands full.
Stay focused and proofread, proofread, proofread.
Peace and Love! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

And when you've finished with the classical techniques, you can progress to
movie soundtracks where every instrument is tracked separately and the
mixing engineer creates the orchestral sound.

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
. 191...
And when you've finished with the classical techniques, you can progress
to
movie soundtracks where every instrument is tracked separately and the
mixing engineer creates the orchestral sound.

You suggest that all movie soundtracks are recorded this way?? That would
surprise me. I know that large ensembles are rarely recorded with a stereo
pair, but I suspect your statement goes much too far. Let's hear from some
mixers doing high budget soundtrack work.

Steve King

Steve King wrote:
"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
.191...
And when you've finished with the classical techniques, you can progress
to
movie soundtracks where every instrument is tracked separately and the
mixing engineer creates the orchestral sound.

You suggest that all movie soundtracks are recorded this way?? That would
surprise me. I know that large ensembles are rarely recorded with a stereo
pair, but I suspect your statement goes much too far. Let's hear from some
mixers doing high budget soundtrack work.

For the most part, yes. At least there is sectional miking, and often
tighter miking than that. This has been the case since the fifties,
really, and it's an attempt to make the music very forward and have it
integrate well with dialogue tracks. It's not about a natural
representation of the orchestra at all, because that's not the point.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:26:58 +0000, Ben Bayliss
wrote:


Thanks for the quick reply - don't worry, I'll be looking a lot at the
Decca tree! As well as being, as you say, British and historical, I'm
fortunate enough to have access to a studio that uses one day in day
out. They've already agreed to let me take photos and have a mock
interview with one of the engineers.


How will it be a mock interview?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Well, mock in the sense that I doubt we'll actually have the
conversation as I will eventually present it. I'll give him the
questions and he'll write the answers.

On the whole I already know the majority of what he will say, but his
position commands somewhat more authority than me, so my arguments will
look more impressive on paper with his name associated with them!

B

Ben Bayliss wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

For the most part, yes. At least there is sectional miking, and often
tighter miking than that. This has been the case since the fifties,
really, and it's an attempt to make the music very forward and have it
integrate well with dialogue tracks. It's not about a natural
representation of the orchestra at all, because that's not the point.

FWIW - none of the scores I've worked on have been recorded in quite
that way. They all used plenty of spot mics (2~3 per section), but used
a good deal of room (decca+riggers and surrounds) for the base sound.

Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a lot of room stuff going into the final
mix as well. But it's not always the same room stuff from scene to scene!
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Ben Bayliss wrote:
Hey all.

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper
with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a
library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could
begin
my research with? I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a
brief
history of the earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.
Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of
the
techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles
available
over here would be preferred!

Thanks in advance,
Ben.


Ben,
If you are starting with the Decca Tree, I suggest you get in touch
with Frank Lockwood, who is fairly well known for his articles on the
technique. Before you contact him, I you should read his articles
(Does anyone have a link to them? I've misplaced it). If, after that,
you'd like more info, I can give you his email address. I'm sure he'd
be happy to answer your questions. He's one of my professors.

Best of luck
Mike