Hi all,

I was trying to assess the capabilities of the inexpensive Samson
C-control monitor controller w/talkback mic
(http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...1650&brandID=2).
Usually the block diagram from the instruction pdf is all I need.
Unfortunately, in this case, the block diagram is a bit strange on a
couple points. And on others, it blatantly contradicts the text of the
pdf.

The pdf I'm speaking of is at
http://www.samsontech.com/products/r...ownman_V1s.pdf

So I figured I'd ask out here to see if anyone has used the C-control
and knows the answers to a few feature questions I'm still left
confused about:

1) In the block diagram, the EXT CUE output is fed only by the MIX IN
input, plus the TALK TO CUE. However, the text reads as if the bus that
mixes the 4 inputs feeds the EXT CUE as well as all the other outputs
("Source Assignment Switches," page 11). Which is it?
2) The DIM control on the block diagram and the thick dotted lines
coming out of it are confusing to me. Obviously the DIM controls (dims)
the speakers; this makes sense. But it also connects to the TALK TO 2TK
switch on that diagram -- does this mean that the talkback button also
dims the speakers? No mention of this feature is made in the text.
3) More on the DIM -- if it does dim the speakers, does only the TALK
TO 2TK button do that or only the TALK TO CUE or do both?
4) More on the DIM -- does it dim the feed into the EXT CUE at all when
the TALK TO CUE is used (likewise does the TALK TO 2TK dim the feed
into the 2TK outputs)?
5) More on the DIM -- is that thick horizontal dotted line also related
to the DIM switch (dimming the -- 2TK? and the .. input bus? hrm.) or
is it just another random dotted line?
6) Not related to the documentation, but I've seen some people online
complaining that the C-control affects the sound too much (ie, it's not
very transparent). But other people have had no problem in this area.
Does anyone have any personal experience with its transparency or lack
thereof?

I'd be very appreciative to anyone who can answer these questions for
me!

Thanks,
Ken

In article .com writes:

1) In the block diagram, the EXT CUE output is fed only by the MIX IN
input, plus the TALK TO CUE. However, the text reads as if the bus that
mixes the 4 inputs feeds the EXT CUE as well as all the other outputs
("Source Assignment Switches," page 11). Which is it?

I'd believe the block diagram. The C-Control isn't a mixer (other than
to mix the talkback mic with whatever someone might be listening to)
so it doesn't mix the four possible inputs to the cue output.
Whichever input you select is what goes out to the cue feed, plus the
talkback, so you can talk to whoever's being cued.

2) The DIM control on the block diagram and the thick dotted lines
coming out of it are confusing to me. Obviously the DIM controls (dims)
the speakers; this makes sense. But it also connects to the TALK TO 2TK
switch on that diagram -- does this mean that the talkback button also
dims the speakers?
3) More on the DIM -- if it does dim the speakers, does only the TALK
TO 2TK button do that or only the TALK TO CUE or do both?
4) More on the DIM -- does it dim the feed into the EXT CUE at all when
the TALK TO CUE is used (likewise does the TALK TO 2TK dim the feed
into the 2TK outputs)?

Yes. This is necessary to prevent the talkback mic from feeding back
through control room speakers since the talkback is routed to all of
the speaker outputs. Since the Talk-to-cue sends the talkback mic only
to the cue output (which will normally be headphones worn by musicians
in another room, or speakers in the studio, away from the control room
talkback mic) there is no need to dim the control room speakers when
that button is pressed.

5) More on the DIM -- is that thick horizontal dotted line also related
to the DIM switch (dimming the -- 2TK? and the .. input bus? hrm.) or
is it just another random dotted line?

It's a little confusing on the diagram. There appears to be two
intersecting but unrelated dotted lines there. The "Dim" logic is the
vertical line running from the Talk to 2TK switch - that turns down
the speaker outputs when you puse that button in the control room (so
you won't get feedback, as above). The horizontal dotted line with the
dog leg that runs between the input "Logic Switching" block and the
2TK outputs probably controls things so that you can't inadvertently
switch a recorder's output to its input.

6) Not related to the documentation, but I've seen some people online
complaining that the C-control affects the sound too much

Apparently there are some active components in the signal path, and
for $99, you don't get the highest grade of components and circuitry.
The several-thousand-buck monitor switcher from Crane Song uses
digitally switched analog buffers and it sounds fine. The Dangerous
($1K+) switcher is totally passive. So are some (but not all) paths in
the Presonus Central Station and Furman SRM-80. Pay more and you get
more transparency. Pay little and you get a lot of functionality for
not much money.

You have to decide how critical your application is, and how you can
accomplish this on your budget.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article .com
writes:

1) In the block diagram, the EXT CUE output is fed only by the MIX
IN
input, plus the TALK TO CUE. However, the text reads as if the bus
that
mixes the 4 inputs feeds the EXT CUE as well as all the other
outputs
("Source Assignment Switches," page 11). Which is it?

I'd believe the block diagram. The C-Control isn't a mixer (other
than
to mix the talkback mic with whatever someone might be listening to)
so it doesn't mix the four possible inputs to the cue output.
Whichever input you select is what goes out to the cue feed, plus the
talkback, so you can talk to whoever's being cued.

But that's not what the block diagram says -- it shows the EXT CUE
connected only to the MIX IN, and not the output of the "logic
switching" block. My question is is the EXT CUE feed the same switched
input as the 2TK and speaker feed, as the text says, or is it connected
only to the MIX IN input, as the block diagram says?

Also, the text seems to pretty clearly say that it does mix the inputs:
"C control allows you to monitor more than one stereo Source at the
same time, therefore a Source assignment switch will stay on when
another is selected. Simply press the Source assignment button a second
time and the Source will turn off."

Have you used one in person and know for sure that it doesn't mix?
Thanks for responding
Ken

In article .com writes:

But that's not what the block diagram says -- it shows the EXT CUE
connected only to the MIX IN, and not the output of the "logic
switching" block. My question is is the EXT CUE feed the same switched
input as the 2TK and speaker feed, as the text says, or is it connected
only to the MIX IN input, as the block diagram says?

Hey, it's a block diagram, not a detailed wiring diagram. It shows the
signal flow. So, OK, it doesn't show what you want it tho show. But
think about the purpose. Ext Cue is so that someone plugged into that
jack (presumably in a studio, through a headphone amplifier) can
listen to what's coming back from the computer or console while
playing an overdub (which would typically be connected to "mix in").
There really isn't much point in someone plugged in to the EXT CUE
jack to listen to a mix playback from another recorder, like a CD or
cassette. Those are what the 2-track A and B inputs normally are fed
from.

Also, the text seems to pretty clearly say that it does mix the inputs:
"C control allows you to monitor more than one stereo Source at the
same time, therefore a Source assignment switch will stay on when
another is selected. Simply press the Source assignment button a second
time and the Source will turn off."

Well, OK, but that wouldn't make a lot of sense, would it? It might if
one source was the playback of recorded tracks coming in from the
computer and the other source was a direct output from a mic preamp
(split to the input of the sound card) so you could have "no latency"
monitoring of the track you're overdubbing. So maybe the block diagram
is incorrect and the line should go to the other side of the "Switch
Logic" block. It's not clear what's in that block either.

Have you used one in person and know for sure that it doesn't mix?

No, and no. I only assumed that it didn't mix because it's not a
mixer, it's a fancy switch box. In any case, it doesn't seem to have
controls for mixing the inputs, so if they're mixed, it's just a
simple sum. And, no, I didn't read the whole manual, I just looked at
the block diagram.

Go to a music store and play with one. The product line is pretty
popular. Or if your nearest dealer is 200 miles away, buy one from one
of the on-line dealers who cheerfully accepts returns and play with it
at home. That's the real way to know if it will meet your needs or
wants.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo