My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head on
straight?

Thanks,

Scott Chapin

"Scott Chapin" wrote in message
...
My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer,

But, but... why?


but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

Dunno, is it a "stomp box" compressor? If so, those are usually designed to
go straight into an instrument amp, and the signal might indeed need to be
boosted.

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head
on
straight?

Does the -10/+4 option affect the inputs or outputs? If it's the outputs,
then you should be able to go from the compressor into the (ugh) BBE with no
problem.

BTW, are you the same Scott Chapin that does voiceovers for about a zillion
TV stations around the country? Just wondering.

Neil Henderson

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message
om...

"Scott Chapin" wrote in message
...
My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer,

But, but... why?


but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

Dunno, is it a "stomp box" compressor? If so, those are usually designed
to
go straight into an instrument amp, and the signal might indeed need to be
boosted.

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my
head
on
straight?


Does the -10/+4 option affect the inputs or outputs? If it's the outputs,
then you should be able to go from the compressor into the (ugh) BBE with
no
problem.

It's a Sampson S-com plus. I'm not sure, but I think it probably does affect
input as well. Why do you not like the BBE. I've not heard one, but have
read many recommendations.

BTW, are you the same Scott Chapin that does voiceovers for about a
zillion
TV stations around the country? Just wondering.

No...I thought I was the only one :-).

Scott Chapin

Why don't you get him something FUN, like a distortion or delay?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:33:04 -0500, "Scott Chapin"
wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head on
straight?

Thanks,

Scott Chapin

What is it that you are trying to accomplish for your son? Is this all
the gear he has? I would think a small practice amp like Tech21
Trademark 10 would be nice, it is capable of a variety of guitar-amp
tones, is not programmable (easy to use) and is not like these multi-fx
which tend to smother your sound with all sorts of crazy stuff. But
maybe he'd prefer that.

I realize your question is more about matching the signal levels etc,
I've kinda changed the subject on you now didn't I? But it's not clear
what other gear he has.

Scott Chapin wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head on
straight?


Who's the BBE for, him or you? Get the cheap one if it's for him. IOW,
why do you prefer the XLR version?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:06:53 -0700, Frank Vuotto
wrote:


Why don't you get him something FUN, like a distortion or delay?

Definitely! Why the heck do you need some kind of exciter/enhancer
box for electric guitar and bass?

Al


On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:33:04 -0500, "Scott Chapin"
wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head on
straight?

Thanks,

Scott Chapin

Forget delay and distortion, get him a line 6 FM4 Filter modeller. Much
more fun.

Rollasoc
http://www.hairthieves.com


"Frank Vuotto" wrote in message
...

Why don't you get him something FUN, like a distortion or delay?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:33:04 -0500, "Scott Chapin"
wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my head
on
straight?

Thanks,

Scott Chapin

Forget all this crap...he's just learning how to play. How bout
focusing on that and learn to get some decent tones with the guitar
plugged into an amp first. Then, worry about effects and such later.
Also, compression and enhancers don't really fall into the effect
realm. I'd think something more like a couple of cheap stomp
boxes...distortion, delay, flange, etc would be more fun to play with.

I mean, it's not like he can't play along to records without a bbe.
Take all this money and get him a decent tube amp. I'll have all the
compression you need.
later,
m

wrote:
Forget all this crap...he's just learning how to play. How bout
focusing on that and learn to get some decent tones with the guitar
plugged into an amp first. Then, worry about effects and such later.
Also, compression and enhancers don't really fall into the effect
realm. I'd think something more like a couple of cheap stomp
boxes...distortion, delay, flange, etc would be more fun to play
with.

I mean, it's not like he can't play along to records without a bbe.
Take all this money and get him a decent tube amp. I'll have all the
compression you need.
later,
m

I agree. My favorite first effect would be a good tuner, like one of
the Peterson Virtual Strobe jobs.......

wrote in message
oups.com...
What is it that you are trying to accomplish for your son? Is this all
the gear he has? I would think a small practice amp like Tech21
Trademark 10 would be nice, it is capable of a variety of guitar-amp
tones, is not programmable (easy to use) and is not like these multi-fx
which tend to smother your sound with all sorts of crazy stuff. But
maybe he'd prefer that.

I realize your question is more about matching the signal levels etc,
I've kinda changed the subject on you now didn't I? But it's not clear
what other gear he has.


I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is getting a good solid tone on his
instruments. We have a 30 watt Marshall practice amp, MG30DFX, and a
Behringer Ultrabass BX600 amp for the bass. I realize these are not top
notch, but I was cutting cost here, cause I'm sure he'll have definite ideas
later as to what he needs, and it will probably be very expensive.

The compressor really tightened things up and the guitars sound much better,
but I don't here a good solid "bap" coming from the bass, and I "thought"
The BBE would add overtones/undertones to get what we want. The amazing
thing is that BBE really doen't advertise what the Sonic Maximizer does, so
I'm not sure that it IS what he needs. Live sound books, that I have read,
recommend one...SOooooo.

Thanks,

Scott

"S O'Neill" wrote in message
...
Scott Chapin wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my
head on
straight?


Who's the BBE for, him or you? Get the cheap one if it's for him. IOW,
why do you prefer the XLR version?


He he he. Maybe it is for me. I have been starting up my own video and audio
recording business and have found that I have wasted a small fortune
upgrading my equipment. My son started playing guitar in September, and had
played sax for 8 years. Just with reading tablature and playing by ear, he
amazes me at how good he is (the old man's jealous). I want him to take
lessons.

Anyway, he wants to play in a band, and he probably could in a year or so.
My fear is that he would have to upgrade his equipment to pro gear and that
could be expensive. I figure that he should try to go high end on the
moderately priced stuff, and save on the really expensive purchases, until
he knows what HE wants.

Scott Chapin

If you are looking for a cheap way to record bass that sounds pretty
good, try the little Joe Meek VC3, the with one with the enhancer, not
the newer VC3Q. For a little more $, but better build quality try the
Meek VC6, same front end but with a real power supply and balanced ins
& outs.

Al

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:41:49 -0500, "Scott Chapin"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
What is it that you are trying to accomplish for your son? Is this all
the gear he has? I would think a small practice amp like Tech21
Trademark 10 would be nice, it is capable of a variety of guitar-amp
tones, is not programmable (easy to use) and is not like these multi-fx
which tend to smother your sound with all sorts of crazy stuff. But
maybe he'd prefer that.

I realize your question is more about matching the signal levels etc,
I've kinda changed the subject on you now didn't I? But it's not clear
what other gear he has.


I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is getting a good solid tone on his
instruments. We have a 30 watt Marshall practice amp, MG30DFX, and a
Behringer Ultrabass BX600 amp for the bass. I realize these are not top
notch, but I was cutting cost here, cause I'm sure he'll have definite ideas
later as to what he needs, and it will probably be very expensive.

The compressor really tightened things up and the guitars sound much better,
but I don't here a good solid "bap" coming from the bass, and I "thought"
The BBE would add overtones/undertones to get what we want. The amazing
thing is that BBE really doen't advertise what the Sonic Maximizer does, so
I'm not sure that it IS what he needs. Live sound books, that I have read,
recommend one...SOooooo.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott Chapin wrote:

The compressor really tightened things up and the guitars sound much better,
but I don't here a good solid "bap" coming from the bass, and I "thought"
The BBE would add overtones/undertones to get what we want.

The BBE will not help you with that. "Solid bap" comes from very clean
and precise execution of a note on a good instrument with appropriate
strings and setup for that kind of sound. It won't come from effects.
We're down to bass playing technique.

The amazing thing is that BBE really doen't advertise what the Sonic
Maximizer does, so I'm not sure that it IS what he needs.

Well, it maximizes sound? What more could you want? g

Live sound books, that I have read, recommend one...SOooooo.

I have used one live in maybe a couple instances over twenty years, on
stage monitors for particular folks with interesting hearing skills.
Otherwise I stay away from it except for the odd drum track that it can
resucitate. You don't want one.

(But if you do want one I have an BBE862 in very good condition that I'd
let go of for $125 and shipping.)

--
ha

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Chapin wrote:

The compressor really tightened things up and the guitars sound much
better,
but I don't here a good solid "bap" coming from the bass, and I
"thought"
The BBE would add overtones/undertones to get what we want.

The BBE will not help you with that. "Solid bap" comes from very clean
and precise execution of a note on a good instrument with appropriate
strings and setup for that kind of sound. It won't come from effects.
We're down to bass playing technique.

The amazing thing is that BBE really doen't advertise what the Sonic
Maximizer does, so I'm not sure that it IS what he needs.

Well, it maximizes sound? What more could you want? g

Live sound books, that I have read, recommend one...SOooooo.

I have used one live in maybe a couple instances over twenty years, on
stage monitors for particular folks with interesting hearing skills.
Otherwise I stay away from it except for the odd drum track that it can
resucitate. You don't want one.

(But if you do want one I have an BBE862 in very good condition that I'd
let go of for $125 and shipping.)

--
ha

Thanks Hank!

That's what I needed to hear. In fact, that's what I was afraid of...and so
I asked. :-). At this point it's hard for me to say whether his guitars are
good enough. The guitar is a Schecter C-1 plus and the bass is a Schecter 5
string Stilleto Elite. We'll work on execution, and try to find out what are
the right strings. We're probably limited on setup.

Scott Chapin

"Scott Chapin" wrote in message
...

I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is getting a good solid tone on his
instruments. We have a 30 watt Marshall practice amp, MG30DFX, and a
Behringer Ultrabass BX600 amp for the bass. I realize these are not top
notch, but I was cutting cost here, cause I'm sure he'll have definite
ideas
later as to what he needs, and it will probably be very expensive.

The compressor really tightened things up and the guitars sound much
better,
but I don't here a good solid "bap" coming from the bass, and I "thought"
The BBE would add overtones/undertones to get what we want. The amazing
thing is that BBE really doen't advertise what the Sonic Maximizer does,
so
I'm not sure that it IS what he needs. Live sound books, that I have read,
recommend one...SOooooo.

Good ones don't. Read the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook if you want an
example of good reading on the subject.

Meanwhile, the way your son's going to get a good tone on his instruments
will be to play through a decent amp. Get thee to e-bay and find a small
*tubed* amp (not one with "toob simulation" or some such nonsense, but an
all-tube amp). You won't lose any money you put into it, because if it turns
out not to be what he really needs in the long run, you can sell it again
for what you paid for it, which you can't do with crappy amps.

Look for something like a Fender Champ or, my favorite, a Kalamazoo Model
One. (If you buy the latter, or an older version of the former, prepare to
have a tech install a properly grounded cord on it.) Just make sure what you
get is all tubes and comes from a reasonably reputable seller, as much as
you can tell.

Peace,
Paul

"Scott Chapin" writes:
That's what I needed to hear. In fact, that's what I was afraid of...and so
I asked. :-). At this point it's hard for me to say whether his guitars are
good enough. The guitar is a Schecter C-1 plus and the bass is a Schecter 5
string Stilleto Elite. We'll work on execution, and try to find out what are
the right strings. We're probably limited on setup.


I'm not familiar with those models, but you don't have to spend a fortune
for a decent, playable intrument. You might have to spend some time
selecting one in a store. You will find a lot of variance even in
the same models --- maybe moreso if they are hand-crafted, though those
will tend to start with better woods.

The key is to make sure that it has a good tone even BEFORE you
amplify it. Even solid bodies should have a nice ring to the notes
w/o an amp (though it may be easier to hear on a guitar than a bass).
Make sure there's no major flaws in the construction
(warps in the neck, misaligned bridge). Look for warpage, some
might be able to remedied via the truss rod, but if it's severe
that's not likely. Then check the intonation ... is the 12th fret
octave in tune to the open note ? Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed? If not, examine the
bridge. On an electric intstrument each string will usually
have an individual bridge adjustment. Is the offensive string
maxed out such that there's no more play in it's bridge adjustment
in the direction you need to go? If so, this instrument will need
some more serious tech work, and if it's a budget guitar, you
probably want to avoid it. Take the time to play every note
on every string. Make sure each note is pronounced and not buzzy
of fuzzy.

Once you have a decent sounding guitar and amp, the key is to
use shorter (15ft:good 50ft:bad) shielded cords with as few
patches (i.e. pedals) as possible. The longer the cords and more
connections you have the more likely you are to have signal degradation
on a hi-Z signal (ask one of the electronic wizzes to confirm this --
I'm just a player). Here I'm talking about the "front-end"
between the guitar and the amp. Tuners are MOST notorious for
ruining a signal unless it's well-designed with a true
bypass.

Once in the amp, if there's an "effects loop", it's probably
more forgiving and will drive multiple effects w/o a problem (but still
bewar of tuners). But IME, you usually only
want to put things like rack effects or a volume pedal in that
loop --- most (not all) stomp boxes sound better (some MUCH better)
on the front-end.

Hope this gets you started.

"georgeh" wrote in message
...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is the 12th
fret harmonic?

Scott Chapin

"Scott Chapin" wrote in message
...

"S O'Neill" wrote in message
...
Scott Chapin wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need
some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that 4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my
head on
straight?


Who's the BBE for, him or you? Get the cheap one if it's for him. IOW,
why do you prefer the XLR version?


He he he. Maybe it is for me. I have been starting up my own video and
audio
recording business and have found that I have wasted a small fortune
upgrading my equipment. My son started playing guitar in September, and
had
played sax for 8 years. Just with reading tablature and playing by ear, he
amazes me at how good he is (the old man's jealous). I want him to take
lessons.

Anyway, he wants to play in a band, and he probably could in a year or so.
My fear is that he would have to upgrade his equipment to pro gear and
that
could be expensive. I figure that he should try to go high end on the
moderately priced stuff, and save on the really expensive purchases, until
he knows what HE wants.

Scott Chapin



I wish you were my dad.

Scott Chapin wrote:

"georgeh" wrote...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is the 12th
fret harmonic?

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length. (Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

Then if you fret that string at the same note and compare the pitch of
the fretted note against that of the octave harmonic you can determine
the accuracy of the bridge placement/saddle adjustment(s). If these
don't match almost perfectly your guitar won't even pretend to play in
tune, and pretending to play in tune is all even a perfectly adjusted
guitar can do.

If the fretted note is lower than the harmonic you must adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string length. If it's higher, the
opposite.

--
ha

"blacktick" wrote in message
...

"Scott Chapin" wrote in message
...

"S O'Neill" wrote in message
...
Scott Chapin wrote:

My son got an electric guitar and bass, so getting into it I got him
a
compressor , which he loves. Now I am thinking of getting a BBE
Sonic
Maximizer, but would prefer getting the 4dBu XLR version. Do I need
some
sort of preamp, like my FMR-RNP?

The compressor has -10dBv/4dBu selectable, but I am not sure that
4dBu
setting wouldn't need an amplified guitar input. Can somone screw my
head on
straight?


Who's the BBE for, him or you? Get the cheap one if it's for him.
IOW,
why do you prefer the XLR version?


He he he. Maybe it is for me. I have been starting up my own video and
audio
recording business and have found that I have wasted a small fortune
upgrading my equipment. My son started playing guitar in September, and
had
played sax for 8 years. Just with reading tablature and playing by ear,
he
amazes me at how good he is (the old man's jealous). I want him to take
lessons.

Anyway, he wants to play in a band, and he probably could in a year or
so.
My fear is that he would have to upgrade his equipment to pro gear and
that
could be expensive. I figure that he should try to go high end on the
moderately priced stuff, and save on the really expensive purchases,
until
he knows what HE wants.

Scott Chapin



I wish you were my dad.



He he...GO Bucks! Well some was Santa Claus and birthday, and the lions
share was actually his money. I gave him $200 towards each guitar/amp and
bought the compressor.

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Chapin wrote:

"georgeh" wrote...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is the
12th
fret harmonic?

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length. (Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

Then if you fret that string at the same note and compare the pitch of
the fretted note against that of the octave harmonic you can determine
the accuracy of the bridge placement/saddle adjustment(s). If these
don't match almost perfectly your guitar won't even pretend to play in
tune, and pretending to play in tune is all even a perfectly adjusted
guitar can do.

If the fretted note is lower than the harmonic you must adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string length. If it's higher, the
opposite.

--
ha

Ahhh..my dad used to do that while mucking around, but I didn't realize it
had a real purpose. I always just check my mandolin against the 12th fret. I
suppose a fretless harmonic might require some good finger positioning, like
on my fiddle, or will you not even get a tone, unless it's dead on?

RSC

Scott Chapin wrote:
Ahhh..my dad used to do that while mucking around, but I didn't realize it
had a real purpose. I always just check my mandolin against the 12th fret. I
suppose a fretless harmonic might require some good finger positioning, like
on my fiddle, or will you not even get a tone, unless it's dead on?

Pretty much. The tone will be pretty quiet to begin with. The further
off you are, the quieter it will get, and you don't have to get off
far (maybe 1/4") to make it not happen at all. It also helps to have
just the right pressure against the string. Too much, and the harmonic
won't sound at all. And, as Hank mentioned, you want to remove your
left hand quickly after plucking the string.

- Logan

hank alrich wrote:

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length.

I don't want to be super obnoxious technical guy (although some would
say you can't help who you are), but it may be slightly higher than
a true octave above. Probably not by much, but according to what I
understand, due to the stiffness of the strings, the effective length
is a tiny bit shorter than half the length of the string.

The point being, harmonics are pretty close, but they are not a sure
thing for tuning or checking the intonation.

(Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

And if you want to be a little silly, also try just to the left of
the 4th (or 9th) frets, or just to the right of the 3rd fret, or
about 1/3 of the way between the 2nd and 3rd frets. :-)

- Logan

Scott Chapin wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote...
Scott Chapin wrote:

"georgeh" wrote...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is
the 12th fret harmonic?

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length. (Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

Then if you fret that string at the same note and compare the pitch of
the fretted note against that of the octave harmonic you can determine
the accuracy of the bridge placement/saddle adjustment(s). If these
don't match almost perfectly your guitar won't even pretend to play in
tune, and pretending to play in tune is all even a perfectly adjusted
guitar can do.

If the fretted note is lower than the harmonic you must adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string length. If it's higher, the
opposite.

Ahhh..my dad used to do that while mucking around, but I didn't realize it
had a real purpose.

He was just showing off nad you didn't even notice! g

I always just check my mandolin against the 12th fret.

Hence, it could be very nice to have that fretted note actually be the
high E your mandolin wants for you. g

I suppose a fretless harmonic might require some good finger positioning,
like on my fiddle, or will you not even get a tone, unless it's dead on?

You want the contact point of your finger to be precisely over the fret,
instead of just behind the fret as when playing a fretted note. If you
don't get that right or if you miss the release timing you get a "thonk"
instead of a "twing". Go for it; no guitars have been killed by amateurs
trying this at home.

--
ha

Logan Shaw wrote:

hank alrich wrote:

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length.

I don't want to be super obnoxious technical guy (although some would
say you can't help who you are), but it may be slightly higher than
a true octave above. Probably not by much, but according to what I
understand, due to the stiffness of the strings, the effective length
is a tiny bit shorter than half the length of the string.

Right, string cross section and metal stiffness all effect the pitch as
one shortens the length. But if the strings are not unusually
thick/stiff and are not starting to work-harden the pitch error will
have more to do with the slight stretching of the string in order to
press it against the fret. However, this is an error that exists to a
certain extent for every note on the fretboard, so making it work
rightly with the octave harmonic averages that error over the rest of
the scale.

The point being, harmonics are pretty close, but they are not a sure
thing for tuning or checking the intonation.

You may not use any harmonic but the octave. All others happen where
Nature put them and She has little regard for equal temperament, so all
the rest are spurious in relation to most Western music.

(Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

And if you want to be a little silly, also try just to the left of
the 4th (or 9th) frets, or just to the right of the 3rd fret, or
about 1/3 of the way between the 2nd and 3rd frets. :-)

My McCollum, by far the most responsive guitar I've ever owned, will
offer up harmonics nearly anywhere you want to go for one.

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:


You may not use any harmonic but the octave. All others happen where
Nature put them and She has little regard for equal temperament, so all
the rest are spurious in relation to most Western music.


Therefore checking the 1st string/7th fret harmonic against the 2nd
string/5th fret harmonic, etc., is inaccurate.


My McCollum, by far the most responsive guitar I've ever owned, will
offer up harmonics nearly anywhere you want to go for one.


Ex. 1: play Red River Valley on the bass, using only harmonics.

Ex. 2: "Portrait of Tracy", also on the bass. It's ok to not use
harmonics on all the notes on this one.

"S O'Neill" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:


You may not use any harmonic but the octave. All others happen where
Nature put them and She has little regard for equal temperament, so all
the rest are spurious in relation to most Western music.


Therefore checking the 1st string/7th fret harmonic against the 2nd
string/5th fret harmonic, etc., is inaccurate.


My McCollum, by far the most responsive guitar I've ever owned, will
offer up harmonics nearly anywhere you want to go for one.


Ex. 1: play Red River Valley on the bass, using only harmonics.

Ex. 2: "Portrait of Tracy", also on the bass. It's ok to not use
harmonics on all the notes on this one.

Ex. 3: Find the harmonics to play the opening motif of "The Rite of Spring"
on a standard-tuned guitar.

Peace,
Paul

(hank alrich) writes:

Scott Chapin wrote:

"georgeh" wrote...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is the 12th
fret harmonic?

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length. (Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

Then if you fret that string at the same note and compare the pitch of
the fretted note against that of the octave harmonic you can determine
the accuracy of the bridge placement/saddle adjustment(s). If these
don't match almost perfectly your guitar won't even pretend to play in
tune, and pretending to play in tune is all even a perfectly adjusted
guitar can do.

If the fretted note is lower than the harmonic you must adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string length. If it's higher, the
opposite.

Great explanation from Hank. WRT what I posted, if you need to adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string, but the saddle piece is already
at it's minimum, the guitar will need some serious work. If it's a
budget guitar, you'd probably want to avoid it. Likewise if you need
to lengthen the string, but the bridge/saddle is already set to the
max in that direction.

On 24 Jan 2005 15:01:40 GMT, georgeh
wrote:

(hank alrich) writes:

Scott Chapin wrote:

"georgeh" wrote...

Is the 12th fret "harmominic"
in tune with the 12th fret when pressed?

Thank you. That all makes sense except this snipped insert. What is the 12th
fret harmonic?

If you place a lefty finger (assuming you play right handed) over a
string directly above the 12th fret, lightly touching the string to damp
its full-length excitation, then pluck it and almost simultaneously lift
the finger, the string will ring at a true octave, half the string
length. (Note that this requires well controlled touch and decent
timing. You might have to practice this to get it happening. To improve
your harmonics techinique practice also at the fifth and seventh frets.)

Then if you fret that string at the same note and compare the pitch of
the fretted note against that of the octave harmonic you can determine
the accuracy of the bridge placement/saddle adjustment(s). If these
don't match almost perfectly your guitar won't even pretend to play in
tune, and pretending to play in tune is all even a perfectly adjusted
guitar can do.

If the fretted note is lower than the harmonic you must adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string length. If it's higher, the
opposite.

Great explanation from Hank. WRT what I posted, if you need to adjust the
bridge/saddle to shorten the string, but the saddle piece is already
at it's minimum, the guitar will need some serious work. If it's a
budget guitar, you'd probably want to avoid it. Likewise if you need
to lengthen the string, but the bridge/saddle is already set to the
max in that direction.

Sometimes you can replace the bridge with one that has more travel
range for the saddles... for example the Gibson tune-a-matice bridge
can be replaced with the Gibson "Nashville" style bridge which is
wider and has more room for adjustment.

Al