On 2004-11-08, Scott Dorsey wrote:

And then a couple hundred more to replace them when they fail, plus lost time.

Right, a lesson I don't need to learn, and the reason I'm trying to
avoid it. I *know* I make better stuff than they, "they" being anyone
else, but the barrier to entry (1000' of mic cable, a bin of connectors)
has me sticker shocked. For the cost of cabling, I could buy another
instrument, or an effects box or a mic or something :-)

james of tucson wrote:
On 2004-11-08, Scott Dorsey wrote:
And then a couple hundred more to replace them when they fail, plus lost time.

Right, a lesson I don't need to learn, and the reason I'm trying to
avoid it. I *know* I make better stuff than they, "they" being anyone
else, but the barrier to entry (1000' of mic cable, a bin of connectors)
has me sticker shocked. For the cost of cabling, I could buy another
instrument, or an effects box or a mic or something :-)

Right. Mike cables aren't exciting. But they are things that you need
to have and there's really no way around that. Sadly, most of the really
important things in the studio (like room acoustics) wind up in that category.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"james of tucson" wrote:

[...] the barrier to entry (1000' of mic cable, a bin of connectors)
has me sticker shocked. For the cost of cabling, I could buy
another instrument, or an effects box or a mic or something :-)



If it helps any, you're not alone. Seems lots of people make wiring an
afterthought and don't budget for cable.

I'm building a little overdub/post room in my house. I already have
whatever equipment I need, so the costs have just been minor
renovations, fixtures/millwork, acoustic treatments and interconnects.
Since the rooms are small and there isn't much gear involved, I figured
the budget would be credit card small. Whoops.

Looking at just wiring (since that's all that's relevant to this
discussion):

- four 48 point patchbays, which I bought used really cheap. Since I'm
only ever moving eight channels or so at a time, this was enough for
mixer interconnects and a small assortment of outboard (a more
complicated rig would require many more points). $300

- a ten foot line from each patchbay jack to a corresponding point on a
piece of gear in the rack or the mixer. Doesn't sound like very much
wire until you do the math -- 48 x 4, x ten feet each. Almost half a
mile of wire just for a simple little rig! I had planned to use name
brand cable (I've always used Mogami in the past) but this time opted
for generic simply based on price. Two boxes of 1000 feet each was
$200. Double that for name-brand.

- connectors for the "other" end of those ten foot lines. Fortunately I
know a connector wholesaler so I was able to get Switchcraft and Neutrik
at a substantial discount, but enough 1/4"-TRS and XLR connectors to do
the job still came out to roughly $750.

With other miscellaneous materials and supplies, the cost of wiring a
*very* basic rig with generic cable, used patchbays and discounted
connectors was close to $1500. Something for everyone to consider when
budgeting for system upgrades.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Whenever I've designed studios, or consulted w/ studio owners for
upgrades, I always set aside between 7% and 12% of the equipment total
(in dollars) for wire/cable/connectors

....and I *still* manage to go overbudget more often than not!




(sorry for the top-post)

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message news:kuqkd.141819$9b.40203@edtnps84...
"james of tucson" wrote:

[...] the barrier to entry (1000' of mic cable, a bin of connectors)
has me sticker shocked. For the cost of cabling, I could buy
another instrument, or an effects box or a mic or something :-)



If it helps any, you're not alone. Seems lots of people make wiring an
afterthought and don't budget for cable.

I'm building a little overdub/post room in my house. I already have
whatever equipment I need, so the costs have just been minor
renovations, fixtures/millwork, acoustic treatments and interconnects.
Since the rooms are small and there isn't much gear involved, I figured
the budget would be credit card small. Whoops.

Looking at just wiring (since that's all that's relevant to this
discussion):

- four 48 point patchbays, which I bought used really cheap. Since I'm
only ever moving eight channels or so at a time, this was enough for
mixer interconnects and a small assortment of outboard (a more
complicated rig would require many more points). $300

- a ten foot line from each patchbay jack to a corresponding point on a
piece of gear in the rack or the mixer. Doesn't sound like very much
wire until you do the math -- 48 x 4, x ten feet each. Almost half a
mile of wire just for a simple little rig! I had planned to use name
brand cable (I've always used Mogami in the past) but this time opted
for generic simply based on price. Two boxes of 1000 feet each was
$200. Double that for name-brand.

- connectors for the "other" end of those ten foot lines. Fortunately I
know a connector wholesaler so I was able to get Switchcraft and Neutrik
at a substantial discount, but enough 1/4"-TRS and XLR connectors to do
the job still came out to roughly $750.

With other miscellaneous materials and supplies, the cost of wiring a
*very* basic rig with generic cable, used patchbays and discounted
connectors was close to $1500. Something for everyone to consider when
budgeting for system upgrades.

In article kuqkd.141819$9b.40203@edtnps84 writes:

Looking at just wiring (since that's all that's relevant to this
discussion):

- a ten foot line from each patchbay jack to a corresponding point on a
piece of gear in the rack or the mixer. Doesn't sound like very much
wire until you do the math -- 48 x 4, x ten feet each. Almost half a
mile of wire just for a simple little rig! I had planned to use name
brand cable (I've always used Mogami in the past) but this time opted
for generic simply based on price. Two boxes of 1000 feet each was
$200. Double that for name-brand.

Steve Lampen of Belden has been extolling the vitues of running
balanced line level signals through Cat5e or Cat6 UTP Ethernet cable.
If the balancing is good you can get away without a shield
(automatically eliminating ground loops) and the cable is really
cheap. We've been kicking around getting someone to manufacture DB25
adapters to two RJ45 jacks to run eight channels through two pieces of
UTP cable and connecting to things using the TASCAM/etc. DB25 wiring
standard.

I guess it takes guts to wire an audio installation without shielded
cable the first time, but if it works, that's a confidence-builder.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article kuqkd.141819$9b.40203@edtnps84 writes:

Looking at just wiring (since that's all that's relevant to this
discussion):

- a ten foot line from each patchbay jack to a corresponding point on a
piece of gear in the rack or the mixer. Doesn't sound like very much
wire until you do the math -- 48 x 4, x ten feet each. Almost half a
mile of wire just for a simple little rig! I had planned to use name
brand cable (I've always used Mogami in the past) but this time opted
for generic simply based on price. Two boxes of 1000 feet each was
$200. Double that for name-brand.

Steve Lampen of Belden has been extolling the vitues of running
balanced line level signals through Cat5e or Cat6 UTP Ethernet cable.
If the balancing is good you can get away without a shield
(automatically eliminating ground loops) and the cable is really
cheap. We've been kicking around getting someone to manufacture DB25
adapters to two RJ45 jacks to run eight channels through two pieces of
UTP cable and connecting to things using the TASCAM/etc. DB25 wiring
standard.

I guess it takes guts to wire an audio installation without shielded
cable the first time, but if it works, that's a confidence-builder.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo