Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?

Thanks,

Alan

SA Dev wrote:

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?

Yes, you can buy an outboard phono preamp. Adcom makes a decent one for
around $150 as long as you don't need anything fancy like moving coil inputs.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

SA Dev wrote:

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?


Probably Radio Shack. It's a phono preamp. Glancing at their site, I saw
a turntable with a built-in preamp for $99.00.

"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to
get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?

What you want is a phono preamp. audioXpress magazine did technical and
listening tests on a variety of small, cheap phono preamps a year or so ago;
most of them tested out quite badly, and sounded pretty crummy too. The
Hagerman Bugle was the clear winner -- it had the closest thing to proper
RIAA compensation, a necessity for a phono preamp. It sells for about $50.
In second place, technically, was the Radio Shack preamp, at $25. The rest
had such high deviations from proper RIAA response and (in some cases) high
distortion levels that I wouldn't bother looking at them.

Peace,
Paul

Fry's has one that's inexpensive 25$ and doesn't sound horrible. If you
have a really nice turntable/stylus you might want to shop for a better one
via Froogle, etc...

good luck!





"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to
get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?

Thanks,

Alan

In article ,
"uber_lame" wrote:

Fry's has one that's inexpensive 25$ and doesn't sound horrible. If you
have a really nice turntable/stylus you might want to shop for a better one
via Froogle, etc...

good luck!





"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit more to
get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these ready
made?

Thanks,

Alan





Rats(radio) shack used to sell a riaa phono preamp
suitable for dance schools trying to put record players thru thier PA
systems
George

George wrote in
:

In article ,
"uber_lame" wrote:

Fry's has one that's inexpensive 25$ and doesn't sound horrible. If
you have a really nice turntable/stylus you might want to shop for a
better one via Froogle, etc...

good luck!





"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers
don't have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a
bit more to
get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to
convert the phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy
one of these ready made?

Thanks,

Alan





Rats(radio) shack used to sell a riaa phono preamp
suitable for dance schools trying to put record players thru thier PA
systems
George


ART makes one called the "DeeJay Pre". I like it, but I haven't compared
it to anything. Got mine from Swee****er.

Greg

"SA Dev" wrote in message

Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers
don't have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a
bit more to get one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I
can use to convert the phono input to line input? Any idea where I
could buy one of these ready made?

Here's a number of alternatives

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?phonpre.htm

Hi guys,

This is the turntable I have:

http://tinyurl.com/7yh2y

It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still need to run
it through something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2glt8

Before I can connect it to a generic (non phono) line input like aux in?

Thanks!

Alan

"SA Dev"

This is the turntable I have:

http://tinyurl.com/7yh2y

It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still need to
run
it through something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2glt8

Before I can connect it to a generic (non phono) line input like aux in?


** No.





........... Phil

"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,

This is the turntable I have:

http://tinyurl.com/7yh2y

[Sony PS-LX250H]

It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still need to
run
it through something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2glt8

[Radio Shack RIAA phono preamp]

Before I can connect it to a generic (non phono) line input like aux in?

It would appear that you do *not* need an external phono
preamp if Sony claims that the turntable has one built-in.

Alas, the writing of the "specifications" seems to be hijacked
by cluless marketing people. No mention of line-level (or ANY)
output, But "Fully-automatic operation" (whatever that means?)
is important enough to repeat twice in succession. :-(
Perhaps that is the difference between "Sonystyle" and "Sony"?

Phil Allison wrote:
"SA Dev"

This is the turntable I have:

http://tinyurl.com/7yh2y

It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still
need to run it through something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2glt8

Before I can connect it to a generic (non phono) line input like
aux in?



** No.



I love how the "specifications" page is an exact relisting of the
"features" page, but omitting the paragraph that mentions the built-in
RIAA preamp.

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...

Probably Radio Shack. It's a phono preamp. Glancing at their site, I saw
a turntable with a built-in preamp for $99.00.

Would you play YOUR records on it?
I wouldn't want mine in the same room!

TonyP.

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
What you want is a phono preamp. audioXpress magazine did technical and
listening tests on a variety of small, cheap phono preamps a year or so
ago;
most of them tested out quite badly, and sounded pretty crummy too. The
Hagerman Bugle was the clear winner -- it had the closest thing to proper
RIAA compensation, a necessity for a phono preamp. It sells for about $50.
In second place, technically, was the Radio Shack preamp, at $25. The rest
had such high deviations from proper RIAA response and (in some cases)
high
distortion levels that I wouldn't bother looking at them.

Considering the response variation of phono cartridges and records
themselves, I've always thought people who worry about 1dB RIAA deviation
are fooling themselves. The best pre-amp will still sound poor if not
properly matched to the cartridge in most cases. Also distortion levels in a
phono pre-amp higher than the records and cartridges available would
indicate something wrong.
Having said that, if you're going to play vinyl, you might as well do it
properly. $50 or more for a pre-amp will be the least of your costs.

TonyP.

SA Dev wrote:
Hi guys,

This is the turntable I have:

http://tinyurl.com/7yh2y

Yucch. I am sorry. These things are _not_ exactly accurate tracking
machines.

It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still need to run
it through something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2glt8

Before I can connect it to a generic (non phono) line input like aux in?

No, these things have built-in preamplifiers so they have a line level
output. I suspect the preamplifier is probably as bad as the arm, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hi,

Thanks to all for posting. After some more research I found that the record
player has a switch that turns on the built in preamp. This is certainly
the easiest solution as I won't have to buy anything extra.

Thanks,

Alan

In article writes:

This is the turntable I have:
It says it has a built-in phono pre-amp. Does this mean I still need to run
it through something like this:

To me, "phono preamp" means that the output is at line level, not at
phono cartridge level, and has the RIAA equalization built in. You
should not need (nor should not use) an outboard phono preamp.

However, you have the turntable, and presumably you have something
like a receiver, mixer, or amplifier that you intend to use with it.
What happens when you connect them in the logical manner?

I assume you wouldn't be asking unless it didn't work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"SA Dev" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My old receiver is dying, and I noticed that many new AV receivers
don't
have a phono input anymore, unless you want to spend quite a bit
more to get
one with it. Is there a small circuit or adapter I can use to
convert the
phono input to line input? Any idea where I could buy one of these
ready
made?

Buy one of the receivers that DOES have a phono input.

Norm Strong

"TonyP" wrote in message
u...

Considering the response variation of phono cartridges and records
themselves, I've always thought people who worry about 1dB RIAA deviation
are fooling themselves.

No real argument there. But this wasn't a matter of 1dB deviations. Here's
how these little suckers measured (all referenced to level @ 1kHz):

Hagerman Bugle: Essentially flat; ~1.2dB rolloff at 20Hz, +0.6dB at 20kHz

MCM 40-630: Bass: 2.2dB dip at ~220Hz, rising to a +3.6dB peak at 45Hz, then
dropping to -5dB at 20Hz. Treble: steadily rising to about +5.5dB at 20kHz.

PAIA 9802k: Bass: steady downslope to -4dB at 20Hz. Treble: shelved
response, +1.8dB from about 5kHz on up.

Parts Express 245-035: Bass: wiggly, down 2dB at100 Hz. Treble: shelved
response, +0.8dB from about 4kHz on up.

TCC TC-400/Recoton SP2: Bass: steadily rising as you go down; +3.6dB at
20Hz. Treble: essentially flat.

Radio Shack 970-1018: Essentially flat; bass -1dB at 45Hz.Treble: shelved
response, - 0.8dB from 4kHz on up.

Tech Link TPA-2: Bass rising to a broad hump: +3.6dB centering around 80Hz.
Treble: rises continuously from 2kHz on up, +13.1dB at 20kHz. This massive
error results from the fact that the designer used the NAB tape EQ circuit
from the data sheet for the opamp they used. Yes, really.

Distortion (THD +N) figures were also dreadful for several of the preamps;
the TCC, for example, hit 17% at 20Hz (the Rat Shack unit was 0.4% across
the frequency spectrum until you hit the stuff over 18kHz, at which point it
took off for the stratosphere. The Hagerman was 0.04% at all frequencies.)

The ineptitude with which these preamps were designed is remarkable. The
poor distortion performance might be understandable (many of the
low-performing units run on a pair of 9V batteries -- but then, so does the
Hagerman). But with the formulas for calculating accurate RIAA response
having been published some 30 years ago, there's no excuse for not doing
that right -- and Tech Link's using an NAB tape network instead of RIAA, as
a friend of mine used to say, buggers the imagination.

Now you know why I suggested the Hagerman and Rat Shack pres, and none of
the others.

Peace,
Paul

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
Tech Link TPA-2: Bass rising to a broad hump: +3.6dB centering around
80Hz.
Treble: rises continuously from 2kHz on up, +13.1dB at 20kHz. This massive
error results from the fact that the designer used the NAB tape EQ circuit
from the data sheet for the opamp they used. Yes, really.

I see your point. I suppose it shouldn't amaze me, but you do wonder how
these things get into production.

The ineptitude with which these preamps were designed is remarkable. The
poor distortion performance might be understandable (many of the
low-performing units run on a pair of 9V batteries -- but then, so does
the
Hagerman).

Yes, a +/- 9V supply is quite sufficient if you have adjustable gain to
match the cartridge. The concept that you need 30v or more out of a pre-amp,
then feed it into a power amp with 1V or so input sensitivity has always
amazed me. It's only to give better looking specs.
And a battery supply does eliminate one potential source of hum at least.

But with the formulas for calculating accurate RIAA response
having been published some 30 years ago, there's no excuse for not doing
that right -- and Tech Link's using an NAB tape network instead of RIAA,
as
a friend of mine used to say, buggers the imagination.

Sure does. :-)

TonyP.

"TonyP" wrote in message
u...

The ineptitude with which these preamps were designed is remarkable. The
poor distortion performance might be understandable (many of the
low-performing units run on a pair of 9V batteries -- but then, so does
the
Hagerman).

Yes, a +/- 9V supply is quite sufficient if you have adjustable gain to
match the cartridge. The concept that you need 30v or more out of a
pre-amp,
then feed it into a power amp with 1V or so input sensitivity has always
amazed me. It's only to give better looking specs.
And a battery supply does eliminate one potential source of hum at least.

Interestingly enough, some of the worst-performing preamps had less gain
than the Hagerman. They're simple two-transistor circuits that were badly
designed. The Hagerman has very clever design; gain is spread over three
opamps, with passive networks between them.

Most of the op-amp-based designs in the test scored very well on distortion
performance (and one that didn't was the one that used an NAB EQ curve; it
overloaded in the non-rolled-off treble). The two-transistor jobs scored
very badly. It's possible to make a two-transistor, single-supply circuit
that performs well. Unfortunately, these designers didn't.

Peace,
Paul

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
Interestingly enough, some of the worst-performing preamps had less gain
than the Hagerman. They're simple two-transistor circuits that were badly
designed. The Hagerman has very clever design; gain is spread over three
opamps, with passive networks between them.

Most of the op-amp-based designs in the test scored very well on
distortion
performance (and one that didn't was the one that used an NAB EQ curve; it
overloaded in the non-rolled-off treble). The two-transistor jobs scored
very badly. It's possible to make a two-transistor, single-supply circuit
that performs well. Unfortunately, these designers didn't.

The first I ever designed and built was a 3 transistor per channel job
which worked OK, but not great. Then I made one using 2 * 5534's per
channel, not long after they came out. Never found a record that was better.
The worst I ever heard used a single 741 per channel.

It's amazing that they are still getting it badly wrong, but not so
surprising that you can get satisfactory performance at an acceptable price,
if you look hard enough.

TonyP.

"TonyP" wrote in message
u...

The first I ever designed and built was a 3 transistor per channel job
which worked OK, but not great. Then I made one using 2 * 5534's per
channel, not long after they came out. Never found a record that was
better.
The worst I ever heard used a single 741 per channel.

It's amazing that they are still getting it badly wrong, but not so
surprising that you can get satisfactory performance at an acceptable
price,
if you look hard enough.

Indeed. They get away with it by using battery power rather than having you
spend the money on a power supply (the hidden cost, of course, is that you
have to supply the batteries), and by not furnishing a box, just a circuit
board. You supply the box too. So it winds up being a $70 preamp rather than
$50, taking into account box, batteries and shipping. Still a hell of a
deal.

Incidentally, it's based around Burr-Brown 2134 dual opamps.

Peace,
Paul

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
Indeed. They get away with it by using battery power rather than having
you
spend the money on a power supply (the hidden cost, of course, is that you
have to supply the batteries),

That's my preferred set up now for transferring to CDR. which is all most
people do with vinyl these days anyway.
For batteries, use NiMH rechargeables.

and by not furnishing a box, just a circuit
board. You supply the box too. So it winds up being a $70 preamp rather
than
$50, taking into account box, batteries and shipping. Still a hell of a
deal.

I guess that does leave out the mechanically challenged though. Pretty fair
deal for the rest it seems.

TonyP.

TonyP wrote:

Probably Radio Shack. It's a phono preamp. Glancing at their site, I saw
a turntable with a built-in preamp for $99.00.

Would you play YOUR records on it?
I wouldn't want mine in the same room!


No, no I wouldn't. But savings seemed to be a goal of OP.

SA Dev wrote:

Thanks to all for posting. After some more research I found that the record
player has a switch that turns on the built in preamp. This is certainly
the easiest solution as I won't have to buy anything extra.


I hope that works for you.