Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin, and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get 90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.

Check out the Sytek, decent quality, reasonable price, and it has four
channels.

Al

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:28:16 GMT, "Tony Briggs"
wrote:

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin, and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get 90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.

Check out the Sytek, decent quality, reasonable price, and it has four
channels.

Al

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:28:16 GMT, "Tony Briggs"
wrote:

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin, and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get 90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.

You should be good with the $400-600/channel to spend. I'd shoot for
a lunchbox and get 4 OSA modules. It might be just a tad over that,
but you'll be ready for anything. I believe the modules will run you
about $450ea at Atlas and the lunchbox is about $450 or 500. These
are great and really capture that API sound which is just great on
everything. The cool thing is, you'll have a few extra slots left
over for the next time you get $400-600 saved and you can grab
something else...more mic pres, compressors, eq, ect....
Four mic pres and a pair of API 560 eqs would make for a nice little
setup.
later,
m

You should be good with the $400-600/channel to spend. I'd shoot for
a lunchbox and get 4 OSA modules. It might be just a tad over that,
but you'll be ready for anything. I believe the modules will run you
about $450ea at Atlas and the lunchbox is about $450 or 500. These
are great and really capture that API sound which is just great on
everything. The cool thing is, you'll have a few extra slots left
over for the next time you get $400-600 saved and you can grab
something else...more mic pres, compressors, eq, ect....
Four mic pres and a pair of API 560 eqs would make for a nice little
setup.
later,
m

"Tony Briggs"

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin, and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get 90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.
BRBR

Umm - you have $400-600 total or per channel? If that's a per channel
price point you have a total budget of up to $2400 for 4 channels, and for that
money there are lots of great micpres available (used-ebay.)

But for $600 *total* your best bet for 4 channels of micpres is probably a
used console, using the direct outputs/insert sends direct into your recorder
and by passing the rest of the console completely. (If you see a good
prospect in your local Banjo Mart ignore the price tag and make your cheapo
offer - as nicely as you can.)


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"Tony Briggs"

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin, and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get 90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.
BRBR

Umm - you have $400-600 total or per channel? If that's a per channel
price point you have a total budget of up to $2400 for 4 channels, and for that
money there are lots of great micpres available (used-ebay.)

But for $600 *total* your best bet for 4 channels of micpres is probably a
used console, using the direct outputs/insert sends direct into your recorder
and by passing the rest of the console completely. (If you see a good
prospect in your local Banjo Mart ignore the price tag and make your cheapo
offer - as nicely as you can.)


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

I have $400 to $600 TOTAL.
Not sure if there is a good 4 input console with good pres that are that
cheap... I don't want to have to pay for some large 16 input one....



"WillStG" wrote in message
...
"Tony Briggs"

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was
looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that
doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin,
and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus
Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db
of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I
also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of
shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but
wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio
and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get
90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a
la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.
BRBR

Umm - you have $400-600 total or per channel? If that's a per
channel
price point you have a total budget of up to $2400 for 4 channels, and for
that
money there are lots of great micpres available (used-ebay.)

But for $600 *total* your best bet for 4 channels of micpres is
probably a
used console, using the direct outputs/insert sends direct into your
recorder
and by passing the rest of the console completely. (If you see a good
prospect in your local Banjo Mart ignore the price tag and make your
cheapo
offer - as nicely as you can.)


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

I have $400 to $600 TOTAL.
Not sure if there is a good 4 input console with good pres that are that
cheap... I don't want to have to pay for some large 16 input one....



"WillStG" wrote in message
...
"Tony Briggs"

Hello, I am in the market for purchasing a 4 input mic pre. I was
looking
for recommendations for this group. I am not at all professional, this is
for a home studio that records in digital only, and I have gear that
doubles
as gear for LIVE situations. The recordings I do are pop, rock, Latin,
and
experimental, all with vocals. Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ), and the Presonus
Tube
Pre, which really warms up the recordings, but is one channel only.

I have no ribbon mics, and don't see one in my future. I don't need 90db
of
super clean gain, therefore. I do have some decent LDCs and SDCs and the
normal stable of dynamic and condensers.

I am VERY comfortable with vintage equipment, I think tube warmth is very
important in circuitry, but I don't understand or know if Class A FET mic
pre's (or whatever) can simulate that same warmth very well or not. I
also
don't have the exposure in real studios to be able to test a range of
equipment first, nor do I have buddies that can help. I am sort of
shopping
blindly here.

With the Presonus, I can really HEAR the difference the tube warmth makes,
and I don't mind the coloration. I like WARMTH and MANAGEABILITY in tone
most of all. I like to gain ride my input to hear the way the output is. I
like simple big knobs and VUs and 3 page manuals, not black digital shrill
80's-style LED read-outs. Etc.

Online, I am scouring through OLD Altec pre amps, Soundtracs mixing
consoles, the Sytek MP-4a, etc, looking at specs and wondering which would
be correct. I think I have about $400 - $600 to spend, which I realize
isn't much, and puts me in the used, not pro range. That's OK. I am
intrigued by the Studio Projects stuff, the Behringer stuff, and wondering
if I could be happy with that. I am not a connoisseur of anything but
wine,
so these brand names don't bother me. I have looked at 7th Circle Audio
and
Hamptone, which are unfortunately way out of my price range - can I get
90%
of the way there?

I do have access to a good tech who can do modifications and upgrades, a
la
new ICs, tubes, etc.

Any help is appreciated. Also, if you think I should be looking at
different criteria, please let me know.
BRBR

Umm - you have $400-600 total or per channel? If that's a per
channel
price point you have a total budget of up to $2400 for 4 channels, and for
that
money there are lots of great micpres available (used-ebay.)

But for $600 *total* your best bet for 4 channels of micpres is
probably a
used console, using the direct outputs/insert sends direct into your
recorder
and by passing the rest of the console completely. (If you see a good
prospect in your local Banjo Mart ignore the price tag and make your
cheapo
offer - as nicely as you can.)


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Tony Briggs wrote:

Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ)

I've used those pres and depending on mics employed, I didn't find them
shrill at all. They aren't highly colored so if you're looking to add at
the pre stage something that isn't really in the source they won't do
that for you. But with a decent condensor mic, proper gain staging and
access of the pre output at the insert point very clean tracks can be
captured. The EQ, on the other hand, is nothing special and nowhere
near as good as the mic preamps.

I think you might be better off revisiting how you're using the Mackie
before you spend money on four channels of mediocre preamp. Now, if you
could spring for a pair of RNP's from FMR Audio you'd move into a
different preamp league, still at reasonable cost, and with pretty good
DI's included.

The RAP archives at Google hold a lot of talk about "how to" and sound
quality using Mackie mixers.

--
ha

Tony Briggs wrote:

Right now, I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ, whose
shrill output bothers me (but I like it's 3 band EQ)

I've used those pres and depending on mics employed, I didn't find them
shrill at all. They aren't highly colored so if you're looking to add at
the pre stage something that isn't really in the source they won't do
that for you. But with a decent condensor mic, proper gain staging and
access of the pre output at the insert point very clean tracks can be
captured. The EQ, on the other hand, is nothing special and nowhere
near as good as the mic preamps.

I think you might be better off revisiting how you're using the Mackie
before you spend money on four channels of mediocre preamp. Now, if you
could spring for a pair of RNP's from FMR Audio you'd move into a
different preamp league, still at reasonable cost, and with pretty good
DI's included.

The RAP archives at Google hold a lot of talk about "how to" and sound
quality using Mackie mixers.

--
ha

In article 9d_7d.64870$He1.48334@attbi_s01 writes:

I have $400 to $600 TOTAL.

I've seen used Sytek preamps for around $600.

Not sure if there is a good 4 input console with good pres that are that
cheap... I don't want to have to pay for some large 16 input one....

Well, the four preamps in the Mackie 1202VLZ Pro are exacly like the
sixteen in the 1604VLZ Pro. But if you don't like a Mackie, it's still
a Mackie.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article 9d_7d.64870$He1.48334@attbi_s01 writes:

I have $400 to $600 TOTAL.

I've seen used Sytek preamps for around $600.

Not sure if there is a good 4 input console with good pres that are that
cheap... I don't want to have to pay for some large 16 input one....

Well, the four preamps in the Mackie 1202VLZ Pro are exacly like the
sixteen in the 1604VLZ Pro. But if you don't like a Mackie, it's still
a Mackie.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Totally agree with hank...as usual. Don't waste your money now on
more pres. With that amount of money, you aren't going to do much
better than your Mackie that you have now. Warmth isn'g going to come
from cheap-ass quasi-tube gear that costs $100-150/channel. Cheap
gear is cheap gear, whether it's tube or solid state. The fact that
all these cheap so called tube pres really are solid state circuits
with a tube added for effect is another story...and been done about a
zillion times on other threads. If that's what you're after, plug in
an Ibanez Tube Screamer on each channel and adjust to suit.
If you really want to upgrade your mic pres to something noticably
better, wait until you can at least afford the Sytek, RNP, or better.
Get the tube thing out of your head. It's mostly marketing hype. If
money were no object for you what would you want....API? Neve?
Neither of which are tube mind you...
later,
m

Totally agree with hank...as usual. Don't waste your money now on
more pres. With that amount of money, you aren't going to do much
better than your Mackie that you have now. Warmth isn'g going to come
from cheap-ass quasi-tube gear that costs $100-150/channel. Cheap
gear is cheap gear, whether it's tube or solid state. The fact that
all these cheap so called tube pres really are solid state circuits
with a tube added for effect is another story...and been done about a
zillion times on other threads. If that's what you're after, plug in
an Ibanez Tube Screamer on each channel and adjust to suit.
If you really want to upgrade your mic pres to something noticably
better, wait until you can at least afford the Sytek, RNP, or better.
Get the tube thing out of your head. It's mostly marketing hype. If
money were no object for you what would you want....API? Neve?
Neither of which are tube mind you...
later,
m