The other day my local hardware store was selling wallets
entirely made from duct tape. No seams if I remember
correctly. Looked really durable too.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

The other day my local hardware store was selling wallets
entirely made from duct tape. No seams if I remember
correctly. Looked really durable too.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Pooh Bear wrote:


Arny Krueger wrote:


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:


We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear
axle.


Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll
bar.

Graham




yup, or stabilizer.

Pooh Bear wrote:


Arny Krueger wrote:


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:


We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear
axle.


Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll
bar.

Graham




yup, or stabilizer.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear
axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll
bar.

yup, or stabilizer.

I think an anti-roll bar connects two wheels with a spring which
is pivoted against the chassis, with the intent to minimize their
relative-to-the-chassis differential motion.

Track rods are relatively primitive linkages to keep live axles in
the same county as the rest of the car. We've all seen them, but
they're so obvious they're easy to ignore.

Speakers have interesting suspensions. Microphone suspensions are
PFM. But cars have the real flavor of danger....

Chris Hornbeck

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear
axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll
bar.

yup, or stabilizer.

I think an anti-roll bar connects two wheels with a spring which
is pivoted against the chassis, with the intent to minimize their
relative-to-the-chassis differential motion.

Track rods are relatively primitive linkages to keep live axles in
the same county as the rest of the car. We've all seen them, but
they're so obvious they're easy to ignore.

Speakers have interesting suspensions. Microphone suspensions are
PFM. But cars have the real flavor of danger....

Chris Hornbeck

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific
kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs
parallel to the rear axle.

Note that this bar is not clamped in the middle, but is only attached at
each end.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

In US automotive parlance, an anti-roll bar differs in that it is attached
to the axle at each end, and clamped to the body in the middle and shaped
with lever ends. If the suspension is independent for each wheel at that end
of the car, then the anti-roll bar is usually attached to the lower control
arm on each side.

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific
kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs
parallel to the rear axle.

Note that this bar is not clamped in the middle, but is only attached at
each end.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

In US automotive parlance, an anti-roll bar differs in that it is attached
to the axle at each end, and clamped to the body in the middle and shaped
with lever ends. If the suspension is independent for each wheel at that end
of the car, then the anti-roll bar is usually attached to the lower control
arm on each side.

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a
specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It
runs parallel to the rear axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

yup, or stabilizer.

I think an anti-roll bar connects two wheels with a spring which
is pivoted against the chassis, with the intent to minimize their
relative-to-the-chassis differential motion.

Actually, it minimizes the independent up-and-down action of the wheels at
that end of the vehicle. In order for the vehicle to roll, one side has to
go up, and the other side has to go down. This bar minimizes this by
resisting indepenent motion in the up-and-down direction.

Track rods are relatively primitive linkages to keep live axles in
the same county as the rest of the car.

They accomplish that, but this is not their main purpose.

We've all seen them, but
they're so obvious they're easy to ignore.

Through a non-obvious set of kinematics, track rods are used to control the
roll center at that end of the car. The roll center is the middle of the
track bar, so the location of the exact attachement points is critical.

BTW, right after grad school I spent about 3 years in Chrysler's advanced
chassis analysis department. Then the company almost completely folded.,
hopefully no fault of mine! ;-)

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a
specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It
runs parallel to the rear axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

yup, or stabilizer.

I think an anti-roll bar connects two wheels with a spring which
is pivoted against the chassis, with the intent to minimize their
relative-to-the-chassis differential motion.

Actually, it minimizes the independent up-and-down action of the wheels at
that end of the vehicle. In order for the vehicle to roll, one side has to
go up, and the other side has to go down. This bar minimizes this by
resisting indepenent motion in the up-and-down direction.

Track rods are relatively primitive linkages to keep live axles in
the same county as the rest of the car.

They accomplish that, but this is not their main purpose.

We've all seen them, but
they're so obvious they're easy to ignore.

Through a non-obvious set of kinematics, track rods are used to control the
roll center at that end of the car. The roll center is the middle of the
track bar, so the location of the exact attachement points is critical.

BTW, right after grad school I spent about 3 years in Chrysler's advanced
chassis analysis department. Then the company almost completely folded.,
hopefully no fault of mine! ;-)

wrote in message

On 2004-09-05 said:
Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much
over gravity either !
There you go.

Btw folks, it isn't just called Gaffer tape in the UK. Gaffer tape
and duct tape are not synonymous. Gaffer tape is muc easier to work
with for the jobs us audio folks have seen duct tape used for such as
taping down cables etc. NO sticky gummy residue left behind for one
thing.

It is alleged that we have residue-free duct tape in the US.

HOwever, leaving a joint duct taped for three weeks which is that
important to the safety of your vehicle is irresponsible to say the
least. THis fool ought to lose driving priveleges just because he's
an idiot.

Agreed.

MOre like a menace to others.

Well yes, if a suspension joint separates, the car goes out of control. More
would be killed were ball joint sepration not so much more common at very
low speeds.

wrote in message

On 2004-09-05 said:
Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much
over gravity either !
There you go.

Btw folks, it isn't just called Gaffer tape in the UK. Gaffer tape
and duct tape are not synonymous. Gaffer tape is muc easier to work
with for the jobs us audio folks have seen duct tape used for such as
taping down cables etc. NO sticky gummy residue left behind for one
thing.

It is alleged that we have residue-free duct tape in the US.

HOwever, leaving a joint duct taped for three weeks which is that
important to the safety of your vehicle is irresponsible to say the
least. THis fool ought to lose driving priveleges just because he's
an idiot.

Agreed.

MOre like a menace to others.

Well yes, if a suspension joint separates, the car goes out of control. More
would be killed were ball joint sepration not so much more common at very
low speeds.

"Pooh Bear" wrote message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific
kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the
rear
axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll
bar.

Graham

Panhard rod in the UK / Europe (after the guy who invented it about
1900...) - mkes a real difference to the way a leaf-sprung (cart-sprung?)
rear end behaves, and with a rear beam axle plus trailing arms and coil
springs is *essential* to locate the rear axle sideways.

HTH,
Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Pooh Bear" wrote message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific
kind of
link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the
rear
axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll
bar.

Graham

Panhard rod in the UK / Europe (after the guy who invented it about
1900...) - mkes a real difference to the way a leaf-sprung (cart-sprung?)
rear end behaves, and with a rear beam axle plus trailing arms and coil
springs is *essential* to locate the rear axle sideways.

HTH,
Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

Well then, here's another use for "The Tape".
Duct tape for embalming!
"Slap 'em, Wrap'em and say good-bye"

Tom



"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1094299860k@trad...

I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup
messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was
driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces
back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk
because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something,
sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for
about three weeks.

That's an invitation to an early death.
Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably
result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident.

Well then, here's another use for "The Tape".
Duct tape for embalming!
"Slap 'em, Wrap'em and say good-bye"

Tom



"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1094299860k@trad...

I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup
messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was
driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces
back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk
because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something,
sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for
about three weeks.

That's an invitation to an early death.
Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably
result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident.

"Dave H." wrote in
message
"Pooh Bear" wrote message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a
specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It
runs parallel to the rear axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

Panhard rod in the UK / Europe (after the guy who invented it about
1900...) - mkes a real difference to the way a leaf-sprung
(cart-sprung?) rear end behaves, and with a rear beam axle plus
trailing arms and coil springs is *essential* to locate the rear axle
sideways.

Agreed, however it also shows up in a goodly number of cars with live-axle
link-arm rear suspensions, including some NASCAR racers.

"Dave H." wrote in
message
"Pooh Bear" wrote message

Arny Krueger wrote:

We call steering link ends, tie rod ends.

Track rod ends here.

In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a
specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It
runs parallel to the rear axle.

Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an
anti-roll bar.

Panhard rod in the UK / Europe (after the guy who invented it about
1900...) - mkes a real difference to the way a leaf-sprung
(cart-sprung?) rear end behaves, and with a rear beam axle plus
trailing arms and coil springs is *essential* to locate the rear axle
sideways.

Agreed, however it also shows up in a goodly number of cars with live-axle
link-arm rear suspensions, including some NASCAR racers.

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On 2004-09-05 said:
Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to
inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and
a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3
weeks with a major component taped together?
I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a
repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels
came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very
frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a
highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome.

Been there done that.

My wife and I were heading back for Iowa after taking her youngest
daughter and family back to the Memphis Tn area. On highway 61 about
canton Mo. we stopped at a rest area to get a couple of hours of sleep
then headed on. I was asleep on the back seat of our van.

WE had a front tire on the right side that we were sure was going to
go about any time. I awoke to find us crashing down the road,
thinking that when that tire blew the wheel split and we were really
in deep doo doo. COme to find out when we brought it to a stop safely
on the side of the road that the wheel had come off. Btw the tire was
still good.

What saved us was the fact that the wife didn't touch the brakes. Had
she I'm sure we would have flipped over.

The fun part was getting the now disabled vehicle out of there. WE
were on a blind curve on a hill. I don't carry a cell phone, but had
my trusty vhf ham rig. A local ham radio repeater had all sorts of
bells and whistles so I figured it had automatic 911 interconnect if I
just punched those digits. I was right and was soon connected with a
911 operator in Adams COunty Illinois. AFter she figured out what was
going on and got straight on all that she relayed my information to
MIssouri state patrol who sent us a tow truck.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



"No job is so small that it does not require more tools
than you can carry in one hand." ---Mike "Rivers

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Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:39:17 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1104593


On 2004-09-05 said:
Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much
over gravity either !
There you go.

Btw folks, it isn't just called Gaffer tape in the UK. Gaffer tape
and duct tape are not synonymous. Gaffer tape is muc easier to work
with for the jobs us audio folks have seen duct tape used for such as
taping down cables etc. NO sticky gummy residue left behind for one
thing.

HOwever, leaving a joint duct taped for three weeks which is that
important to the safety of your vehicle is irresponsible to say the
least. THis fool ought to lose driving priveleges just because he's
an idiot.
MOre like a menace to others.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



A good captain is one who is hoisting his first drink in a
bar when the storm hits.

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:39:19 EDT
Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:39:19 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1104594


On 2004-09-05 said:
Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to
inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and
a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3
weeks with a major component taped together?
I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a
repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels
came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very
frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a
highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome.

Been there done that.

My wife and I were heading back for Iowa after taking her youngest
daughter and family back to the Memphis Tn area. On highway 61 about
canton Mo. we stopped at a rest area to get a couple of hours of sleep
then headed on. I was asleep on the back seat of our van.

WE had a front tire on the right side that we were sure was going to
go about any time. I awoke to find us crashing down the road,
thinking that when that tire blew the wheel split and we were really
in deep doo doo. COme to find out when we brought it to a stop safely
on the side of the road that the wheel had come off. Btw the tire was
still good.

What saved us was the fact that the wife didn't touch the brakes. Had
she I'm sure we would have flipped over.

The fun part was getting the now disabled vehicle out of there. WE
were on a blind curve on a hill. I don't carry a cell phone, but had
my trusty vhf ham rig. A local ham radio repeater had all sorts of
bells and whistles so I figured it had automatic 911 interconnect if I
just punched those digits. I was right and was soon connected with a
911 operator in Adams COunty Illinois. AFter she figured out what was
going on and got straight on all that she relayed my information to
MIssouri state patrol who sent us a tow truck.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



"No job is so small that it does not require more tools
than you can carry in one hand." ---Mike "Rivers

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:39:17 EDT
Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:39:17 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1104593


On 2004-09-05 said:
Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much
over gravity either !
There you go.

Btw folks, it isn't just called Gaffer tape in the UK. Gaffer tape
and duct tape are not synonymous. Gaffer tape is muc easier to work
with for the jobs us audio folks have seen duct tape used for such as
taping down cables etc. NO sticky gummy residue left behind for one
thing.

HOwever, leaving a joint duct taped for three weeks which is that
important to the safety of your vehicle is irresponsible to say the
least. THis fool ought to lose driving priveleges just because he's
an idiot.
MOre like a menace to others.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



A good captain is one who is hoisting his first drink in a
bar when the storm hits.