But then "practicing on the public" isn't just limited to musicians.
Ever buy any commerical software?


Ever hire a contractor to work on your house?


Scott Fraser

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article lahblah writes:


except to share it with 6000 people all grooveing on the energy of it

That's the problem. 5800 of them should sit home and listen to the CD.

We've a long way to go with sound playback and recording. Even the best
speakers are a long way from the real thing. Real instruments have this
incredible healing power. I come out after attending an intense performance and
I'm practically shaking, in a good way.


But if the band isn't playing like a group, then you're not listening
to anything real at a concert either. You're listening to a
reproduction. And as you said, it has a way to go - whether the
speakers are on stage or in a listening room.

I enjoy the intimacy of live music that's intimate - music that's no
longer intimate when you amplify it so that 6000 people can hear it
and only a few can be close enough to see what's going on. I don't
enjoy music that imposes itself on me. But then that's just my own
preference. Some people enjoy being assaulted, and that's the most
important part of the concert experience for them.


I've seen a couple of "theater" sized venues which supported a lot
of audience ( 2000 and up ) where you could hear everything,
max distance to the stage wasn't "opera glasses" far and it wasn't
that messy getting in or out.

SFAIK, those places are going belly up left right and center, and
they won't be replaced. And this at $50 to $150 a seat.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

--

Les Cargill

why I never got heavily
into the gospel thing.


Yikes! Church politics. Sounds as bad as university politics, but without the
participants having any actual pretense to being educated. No thanks.


Scott Fraser

ScotFraser wrote:

why I never got heavily
into the gospel thing.


Yikes! Church politics. Sounds as bad as university politics, but without the
participants having any actual pretense to being educated. No thanks.

Actually, for ordained ministers, most mainstream churches do
require both a regular undergrad degree and a grad degree like
a Master of Divinity. Not that all the principals involved in
church politics are necessarily ordained minsters, but usually
they wind up being connected somehow to whatever's going on
(even if it is unwillingly).

However, despite the fact that many church staff members actually
are educated in some sense, the politics can get pretty ridiculous.
A lot of the time, there is an unspoken assumption that since any
production is a ministry, that (a) it's not necessary to do a
professional job because it's about spiritual stuff rather than
"putting on a show", and (b) anyone who gets annoyed by half-assed
stuff is just being uncooperative and would work harder and give
more to make the impossible happen if they *really* cared about
doing God's work. (Combine this second part with the fact that,
despite the central place of grace in the message of the Gospel,
many church people are still obsessed with proving themselves
worthy to God, and you get a really problematic combination.)

Somewhere I read an interview with T Bone Burnett where he said
he tried playing gospel music once (i.e. Christian entertainment
at a church type thing), and it worked out OK for about 10 minutes
until he played a Beatles song and this got people freaked out
and basically praying for his soul.

So basically, I personally would have pretty strong reservations
about doing the gospel thing. Not that I personally am seeking
a career as a professional, touring musician...

- Logan

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...

Ever hire a contractor to work on your house?

Don't get me started! g $27k later he's gone and I'm still working to
finish up what he didn't get done. I am NOT a happy camper, but at least
the light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming train now!

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

Don't get me started! g $27k later he's gone and I'm still working to
finish up what he didn't get done. I am NOT a happy camper, but at least
the light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming train now!


Sure can relate. I couldn't pay my guy fast enough in order to get him out of
my studio so I could redo all his mistakes & finish up myself.


Scott Fraser

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On 2004-08-30 lahblah(knud) said:
I've nothing against amplification, but I would argue that
nothing can beat
the rush of a full brass section playing maxed out.
except to share it with 6000 people all grooveing on the energy
of it
the best speakers are a long way from the real thing. Real
instruments have this incredible healing power. I come out after
attending an intense performance and I'm practically shaking, in a
good way. "
YOu and me both. HOwever let me tell you a story from the opposite
side of the fence A local organization has put together this gospel
type concert in a space normally used for acoustic performances:
choirs chamber ensembles etc. According to the lady who books the
venue they have a small system which does fine for voice-only work
etc. IT provides two microphones, no provision for monitors onstage
etc.

THe main act for this event uses midi sequences through some keyboards
along with an acoustic piano. HIs rider is pretty explicit about waht
he needs to have to perform. The system the venue has installed
cannot provide it according to the lady in charge of booking the hall.


I offered to provide racks stacks and labor but some additional
equipment would need to be rented or borrowed to meet the star's
rider. HOwever we aren't even talking about it yet because we're
afraid of spending the money and thinking the house system is
adequate. THey're gonna spend their money and get zip point nothing
here and I'mtempted to withdraw the offer of racks stacks and labor.

I prefer music without amplification when it's doable but this show is
not going to be doable for the performer without monitoring etc. I
hate to see these folks lose their investment in this but don't see
any other way to proceed at this point.

They've about a month to decide to pull it together and get what they
needthat I can't provide. WHen they finally figure out that I'm not
blowing smoke up their tailpipes they're going to ask me for racks and
stacks again I'm sure. since my capabilities don't quite meet his
rider without some additional equipment my labor of setting up a
system and tuning it to the room would be no doubt wasted as there
would be no headliner. I can be persuaded to change my mind with a
fee equaling the contribution of the group I belong to. should the
headliner perform with the compromised system i would then still
donate my racks stacks and labor by turning the check back over to the
grand poo bah. Should the headliner say there's no show, see ya
wouldn't wanna be ya then my organization gets its contribution
returned. Any thoughts anyone?




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

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On 2004-08-31 (ScotFraser) said:
Any thoughts anyone?
Get a full description of your equipment to the potential headliner
right away explaining the situation & asking if they can work with
it. Don't let the promoter wait until too late, then spring a nasty
disappointment on the headlining act when they show up.
I would be inclined to do that in most cases. HOwever some additional
info will tell you where I'm at with it.

A group of churches are putting this thing on. I'm church council
president but was not when our church government voted to participate.
Our pastor at the time suggested i represent our church on the
planning committee because of my expertise in live sound.

I talked to the equivalent of the traffic manager of the facility, a
person whom I would think would have the straight dope on what the
facility has to offer. HOwever, two PR type drones and a preacher
have basically told me I'm full of what you flush. I'
m at this point waiting for this place's music director to call me and
give me the same information I've already got, if he bothers to get in
touch with me. THe fearless leader (a preacher) said he knows the man
personally and will put us together.

AT this point the only reason I'll even call the promoter or anything
is if I get a check equal to the contribution of our church. I know
for a fact that the headliner cannot deal with the system I can
provide as we do not have enough microphone chahnnels. AS I said racks
and stacks I can provide, a mixer and snake would have to be rented or
borrowed. I can reach the headliner's agent via toll free telephone
but with what I have available and/or what the facility has available
it doesn't meet the specs on his rider. Racks and stacks meet his
specs however. AT this point they have my hands tied.

AS of september 10 if I have not heard from anybody else at the
facility I am going to email the grand poo bah of this great event and
tell him that without a check equal to my church's contribution in my
hand the racks and stacks don't even come out of the truck. IF he
agrees to that then I'll call the agent and see if we can't work out
a solution. Otherwise I'll put no more effort into it. when the
check is in my hands if he says no and they forfeit their deposit then
my church gets its money back.
IF we work out a compromise solution I donate my racks stacks and
labor.
was just telling my wife the other day this is why I never got heavily
into the gospel thing.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

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