Romeo Rondeau wrote:


Please, when they start Autotuning the Stones' BG Vocs.......just
shoot me.

Umm, no offense but some of them could use it :-)

Naaa, that's part of the 'charm'.

geoff

"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
...
Romeo Rondeau wrote:


Please, when they start Autotuning the Stones' BG Vocs.......just
shoot me.

Umm, no offense but some of them could use it :-)

Naaa, that's part of the 'charm'.

I love the Stones, and most of the BGV's aren't too bad, but every so
often...

"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
...
Romeo Rondeau wrote:


Please, when they start Autotuning the Stones' BG Vocs.......just
shoot me.

Umm, no offense but some of them could use it :-)

Naaa, that's part of the 'charm'.

I love the Stones, and most of the BGV's aren't too bad, but every so
often...

Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


Scott Fraser

Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


Scott Fraser

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


Scott Fraser

How much are you drawing? I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


Scott Fraser

How much are you drawing? I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.

How much are you drawing?

Really just microtonal amounts on a few words per verse.

I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.


I have been sampling the whole song into AT's graphical memory, & working on
the needed fixes. Perhaps the solution is to just throw in a phrase at a time,
fix, & repeat. WAY more time intensive & a pain in the ass, but I'll give that
a try.




Scott Fraser

How much are you drawing?

Really just microtonal amounts on a few words per verse.

I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.


I have been sampling the whole song into AT's graphical memory, & working on
the needed fixes. Perhaps the solution is to just throw in a phrase at a time,
fix, & repeat. WAY more time intensive & a pain in the ass, but I'll give that
a try.




Scott Fraser

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
How much are you drawing?

Really just microtonal amounts on a few words per verse.

I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.


I have been sampling the whole song into AT's graphical memory, & working
on
the needed fixes. Perhaps the solution is to just throw in a phrase at a
time,
fix, & repeat. WAY more time intensive & a pain in the ass, but I'll give
that
a try.


Probably the only way to do it. If they would just fix it, you'd be able to
work whatever way you liked.

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
How much are you drawing?

Really just microtonal amounts on a few words per verse.

I haven't noticed it, but them again I'm not
really drawing a whole lot and not correcting a long passage.


I have been sampling the whole song into AT's graphical memory, & working
on
the needed fixes. Perhaps the solution is to just throw in a phrase at a
time,
fix, & repeat. WAY more time intensive & a pain in the ass, but I'll give
that
a try.


Probably the only way to do it. If they would just fix it, you'd be able to
work whatever way you liked.

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


I have version 4, the DirectX version, and haven't noticed this happening
at all, and I do usually suck the whole track into Autotune.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


I have version 4, the DirectX version, and haven't noticed this happening
at all, and I do usually suck the whole track into Autotune.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...

Have you tried Version 4 using the make vibrato curve yet?

No. I've been so unimpressed with V3 I didn't want to spend the money,

unless

they've SERIOUSLY improved the audio.

After you make
the auto curve, you can grab the end points of a note that goes flat and
bring the pitch up very nicely. I think this feature is very good and

makes

it much better than V3 (less damage to audio).

Does it still screw with the time line in manual mode?


I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.



How is this significantly different from using say, CoolEdit
to modify the pitch of short sections of notes?

FWIW, I only had the AT demo plugin for the thirty
day trial, but there were a couple of things done
on auto that were pretty transparent. But the
pitch of the original material wasn't that
bad....

--
Les Cargill

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...

Have you tried Version 4 using the make vibrato curve yet?

No. I've been so unimpressed with V3 I didn't want to spend the money,

unless

they've SERIOUSLY improved the audio.

After you make
the auto curve, you can grab the end points of a note that goes flat and
bring the pitch up very nicely. I think this feature is very good and

makes

it much better than V3 (less damage to audio).

Does it still screw with the time line in manual mode?


I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.



How is this significantly different from using say, CoolEdit
to modify the pitch of short sections of notes?

FWIW, I only had the AT demo plugin for the thirty
day trial, but there were a couple of things done
on auto that were pretty transparent. But the
pitch of the original material wasn't that
bad....

--
Les Cargill

I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune
setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on
the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to
auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw
a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.



How is this significantly different from using say, CoolEdit
to modify the pitch of short sections of notes?

FWIW, I only had the AT demo plugin for the thirty
day trial, but there were a couple of things done
on auto that were pretty transparent. But the
pitch of the original material wasn't that
bad....

Well, there is a bug in autotune that offsets the track wherever the notes
are drawn. So it depends on how you are editing the track and how your
editor deals with it as to how much of an impact that bug is going to have.
I use autotune sparingly, I try to get it to sound as natural as possible.
Most of the time, you can't hear it. If it's real badly out of tune, then
you can't help it. However, I have modified my working style to include not
only punching things that have pitch problems, but fixing things that might
not sound right through autotune if I know that I will have to do it later.
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune
setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on
the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to
auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw
a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.



How is this significantly different from using say, CoolEdit
to modify the pitch of short sections of notes?

FWIW, I only had the AT demo plugin for the thirty
day trial, but there were a couple of things done
on auto that were pretty transparent. But the
pitch of the original material wasn't that
bad....

Well, there is a bug in autotune that offsets the track wherever the notes
are drawn. So it depends on how you are editing the track and how your
editor deals with it as to how much of an impact that bug is going to have.
I use autotune sparingly, I try to get it to sound as natural as possible.
Most of the time, you can't hear it. If it's real badly out of tune, then
you can't help it. However, I have modified my working style to include not
only punching things that have pitch problems, but fixing things that might
not sound right through autotune if I know that I will have to do it later.
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

"Hal Laurent" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version
or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


I have version 4, the DirectX version, and haven't noticed this happening
at all, and I do usually suck the whole track into Autotune.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

I haven't upgraded yet, maybe they fixed it. I'll need to check out their
site and see if it's worth the $$$.

"Hal Laurent" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Actually, I believe they fixed the timeline offset problem a version
or
two
back. I remember it was a big issue in version 1.

I have version 3, used with DP3.11. It's not a latency issue unless it
does a
recalculation of the whole sampled segment every time you redraw a pitch
curve.
It's a cumulative effect. The more notes you redraw, the more the
following
audio moves off its pitch graph. Sucks.


I have version 4, the DirectX version, and haven't noticed this happening
at all, and I do usually suck the whole track into Autotune.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

I haven't upgraded yet, maybe they fixed it. I'll need to check out their
site and see if it's worth the $$$.

I have found that I NEVER draw a straight line (unless I am trying to do a
Cher thang). Why? Because it adds more aritfacts to the audio. I try to
follow the curve as close as possible when I redraw, fixing each part of the
note. I might even try to increase the vibrate shape up or down a little as
I redraw. This way the sound is VERY natural almost regardless of how you
set the retune speed. In version 4 they have a "Make Vibrato curve". This
allows Autotune to draw each note and skip the stuff betweeen notes. Once
this is drawn it is very easy to grab 1 note at a time and move them or grab
the nodes on either end to "tilt" the pitch one way or the other. Nice
improvement.
Try it you'll like it!
Max Arwood

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Have you tried Version 4 using the make vibrato curve yet?

No. I've been so unimpressed with V3 I didn't want to spend the money,
unless
they've SERIOUSLY improved the audio.

After you make
the auto curve, you can grab the end points of a note that goes flat and
bring the pitch up very nicely. I think this feature is very good and
makes
it much better than V3 (less damage to audio).

Does it still screw with the time line in manual mode?

I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to
auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.

I have found that I NEVER draw a straight line (unless I am trying to do a
Cher thang). Why? Because it adds more aritfacts to the audio. I try to
follow the curve as close as possible when I redraw, fixing each part of the
note. I might even try to increase the vibrate shape up or down a little as
I redraw. This way the sound is VERY natural almost regardless of how you
set the retune speed. In version 4 they have a "Make Vibrato curve". This
allows Autotune to draw each note and skip the stuff betweeen notes. Once
this is drawn it is very easy to grab 1 note at a time and move them or grab
the nodes on either end to "tilt" the pitch one way or the other. Nice
improvement.
Try it you'll like it!
Max Arwood

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
Have you tried Version 4 using the make vibrato curve yet?

No. I've been so unimpressed with V3 I didn't want to spend the money,
unless
they've SERIOUSLY improved the audio.

After you make
the auto curve, you can grab the end points of a note that goes flat and
bring the pitch up very nicely. I think this feature is very good and
makes
it much better than V3 (less damage to audio).

Does it still screw with the time line in manual mode?

I find that it works best if you switch to graphical mode, draw straight
lines only on the notes you want to correct, then turn your retune setting
up just like you would in auto mode. This way I only get correction on the
notes I want, yet it operates on the audio in a manner pretty close to
auto
mode (which doesn't mangle the audio as bad), it also allows you to draw a
scoop if you need to and still preserve the vibrato.

"Max Arwood" wrote in message
. com...
I have found that I NEVER draw a straight line (unless I am trying to do a
Cher thang). Why? Because it adds more aritfacts to the audio. I try to
follow the curve as close as possible when I redraw, fixing each part of
the
note. I might even try to increase the vibrate shape up or down a little
as
I redraw. This way the sound is VERY natural almost regardless of how you
set the retune speed. In version 4 they have a "Make Vibrato curve".
This
allows Autotune to draw each note and skip the stuff betweeen notes. Once
this is drawn it is very easy to grab 1 note at a time and move them or
grab
the nodes on either end to "tilt" the pitch one way or the other. Nice
improvement.
Try it you'll like it!
Max Arwood

If you turn the retune slider up, it doesn't add more artifacts to the
audio. It will only apply pitch in the area where you drew the straight
line, but you can make it act like automatic mode this way.

"Max Arwood" wrote in message
. com...
I have found that I NEVER draw a straight line (unless I am trying to do a
Cher thang). Why? Because it adds more aritfacts to the audio. I try to
follow the curve as close as possible when I redraw, fixing each part of
the
note. I might even try to increase the vibrate shape up or down a little
as
I redraw. This way the sound is VERY natural almost regardless of how you
set the retune speed. In version 4 they have a "Make Vibrato curve".
This
allows Autotune to draw each note and skip the stuff betweeen notes. Once
this is drawn it is very easy to grab 1 note at a time and move them or
grab
the nodes on either end to "tilt" the pitch one way or the other. Nice
improvement.
Try it you'll like it!
Max Arwood

If you turn the retune slider up, it doesn't add more artifacts to the
audio. It will only apply pitch in the area where you drew the straight
line, but you can make it act like automatic mode this way.

"Kelly Dueck" wrote in message
om...
Melodyne is where it's at. It is amazing. I've only used the demo
since It's not worth my money to spring for the full version, and you
need a heavy duty CPU to run it, but it is a whole order of magnitude
better than Autotune. No artifacts at all -- whole octave jumps,
synthesis of notes that didn't exist before, overlay different
formants and timbres. Check out the demo.

It sounds good on some things, but the user interface is for the birds.

"Kelly Dueck" wrote in message
om...
Melodyne is where it's at. It is amazing. I've only used the demo
since It's not worth my money to spring for the full version, and you
need a heavy duty CPU to run it, but it is a whole order of magnitude
better than Autotune. No artifacts at all -- whole octave jumps,
synthesis of notes that didn't exist before, overlay different
formants and timbres. Check out the demo.

It sounds good on some things, but the user interface is for the birds.

If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I don't
like.


Scott Fraser

If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I don't
like.


Scott Fraser

Probably the only way to do it. If they would just fix it, you'd be able to
work whatever way you liked.


If they charged $99 for the product I'd put up with the inconvenience, but as a
$350 industry standard, it's simply an unacceptable lack of quality control.


Scott Fraser

Probably the only way to do it. If they would just fix it, you'd be able to
work whatever way you liked.


If they charged $99 for the product I'd put up with the inconvenience, but as a
$350 industry standard, it's simply an unacceptable lack of quality control.


Scott Fraser

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode
with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to
gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the
track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I don't
like.

Oh yeah, the extent of which varies with the timbre of the input.

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode
with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to
gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the
track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I don't
like.

Oh yeah, the extent of which varies with the timbre of the input.

Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description. Wonder why?
Max Arwood

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode
with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to
gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the
track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed
down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I
don't
like.

Oh yeah, the extent of which varies with the timbre of the input.

Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description. Wonder why?
Max Arwood

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...

"ScotFraser" wrote in message
...
If you have a pretty good sounding track, you can use it in auto mode
with
the retune turned up to like 75-100 and it will allow the track to
gradually
settle into pitch after the attacks and consonants have gone by. You'll
never hear it unless the material is lousy and it will tighten up the
track
a bit. It's not a bad tool, it's just really horrid sounding when people
don't know how to use it or when to use it.

It does other stuff besides messing with transients. Even when slowed
down
enough to not produce egregious clicks, I hear a timbre shift that I
don't
like.

Oh yeah, the extent of which varies with the timbre of the input.

"Max Arwood" wrote in message
...
Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description. Wonder why?

You mean formants? I think it may be that autotune tries to not deal with
the formants, it's really only concerned with the pitch of the sustained
portion of the sound, at least that's all it plots. Formants are where most
of the character of the voice is. Someone told me that it resynthesizes.
Maybe it either can't do the formants (highly likely), or it passes them on
to the effected signal. I have no idea how the thing works, that's pretty
obvious :-)

"Max Arwood" wrote in message
...
Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description. Wonder why?

You mean formants? I think it may be that autotune tries to not deal with
the formants, it's really only concerned with the pitch of the sustained
portion of the sound, at least that's all it plots. Formants are where most
of the character of the voice is. Someone told me that it resynthesizes.
Maybe it either can't do the formants (highly likely), or it passes them on
to the effected signal. I have no idea how the thing works, that's pretty
obvious :-)

Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description.

I don't think a formant shift on something that's only been moved 10 or 20
cents is going to be audible. Several half steps without formant correction,
yes, but I think it's something else.

Scott Fraser

Yea that's what it is, formats are screwed up. That is a very accurate
description.

I don't think a formant shift on something that's only been moved 10 or 20
cents is going to be audible. Several half steps without formant correction,
yes, but I think it's something else.

Scott Fraser