Hello all,

I recorded yersterday an important classical concert on a Sony TCD-D7 DAT
portable and a Maxell 3 hours tape. The source, a line out of an audio
console, was plugged on the line-in. When i launched the recording, the
counter was counting properly, the peak meters indicated a good signal and i
was able to listen what i was recording at this time on the headphones. It
wrote a first ID for a 2-3 min sequence and then another one for 2h30
non-stop. Now, when i play my DAT tape, i have absolutely no sound, no
noise, nothing at all ... from the beginning until the end of the tape.
However, the ID with this changement at 3 min is still marked on it. I've
just tried to record again on this same tape and it has worked perfectly.
I have absolutely no clue about what happened. I'm thinking of trying a
recovery but i'm not sure. Has anybody ever seen or heard about a such issue
? Actually, would you think there's something to recover ? Or is it just the
DAT which didn't take the sound at all ?

Thank you very much.

--
Lucius Snow
"I'm not here, this isn't happening" - Thom Yorke

Lucius Snow wrote:

I recorded yersterday an important classical concert on a Sony TCD-D7 DAT
portable and a Maxell 3 hours tape. The source, a line out of an audio
console, was plugged on the line-in. When i launched the recording, the
counter was counting properly, the peak meters indicated a good signal and i
was able to listen what i was recording at this time on the headphones. It
wrote a first ID for a 2-3 min sequence and then another one for 2h30
non-stop. Now, when i play my DAT tape, i have absolutely no sound, no
noise, nothing at all ... from the beginning until the end of the tape.
However, the ID with this changement at 3 min is still marked on it. I've
just tried to record again on this same tape and it has worked perfectly.
I have absolutely no clue about what happened. I'm thinking of trying a
recovery but i'm not sure. Has anybody ever seen or heard about a such issue
? Actually, would you think there's something to recover ? Or is it just the
DAT which didn't take the sound at all ?

The start-ID information is not recorded on the main audio track, I do
not believe. This would seem like the result of a poor head wrap. You
now have a tape that has A-time and start-IDs but no data, right?

You might try some of the data recovery guys... there is one fellow on
r.a.m.p.s who has a very good reputation for salvaging some badly made
tapes. But if indeed the track is bad, there is probably nothing to be
done.

This is why the better DAT machines have confidence monitoring. It's
awfully easy for things to go wrong with helical scan systems.

Just please tell me this wasn't a Sony portable with half-size heads.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Lucius Snow wrote:

I recorded yersterday an important classical concert on a Sony TCD-D7
DAT portable and a Maxell 3 hours tape. [ ... ]

whereupon Scott Dorsey wrote:

Just please tell me this wasn't a Sony portable with half-size heads.

The TCD-D7 is indeed one of those recorders. Also, it has no sensor to
detect the ultra-thin data tape stock which Mr. Snow says he used.

David Satz wrote:
Lucius Snow wrote:

I recorded yersterday an important classical concert on a Sony TCD-D7
DAT portable and a Maxell 3 hours tape. [ ... ]

whereupon Scott Dorsey wrote:

Just please tell me this wasn't a Sony portable with half-size heads.

The TCD-D7 is indeed one of those recorders. Also, it has no sensor to
detect the ultra-thin data tape stock which Mr. Snow says he used.

Oh, man, I missed that part. Sorry, that won't be salvageable. It's not
even worth spending the money to have it checked out.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Jul 4, 2004, Lucius Snow commented:

I recorded yersterday an important classical concert on a Sony TCD-D7 DAT
portable and a Maxell 3 hours tape.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Man, that is very tragic. I'm very sympathetic to your problem.

Unfortunately, the portable TCD-D7 transports are kind of flimsy. They're a
little flakey under the best of circumstances, except when the machines are
very new and well-cared for. The 3-hour DAT tapes are terribly thin, and
don't work very well on even heavy-duty machines.

You can try contacting Bill Drucklieb:

Bill Drucklieb c/o
CinemaSonics, Inc.
Box 423
Oceanport, NJ 07757
(732) 571-3935
Email:
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/billdrucklieb/

Bill specializes in recovering audio back from bad DAT recordings, but be
warned your situation is a "worst-case" scenario. I know of a case where he
got fairly decent sound from a location DAT deck on a commercial I worked on,
and the results were nothing short of miraculous. Even the timecode came
back fine. In that case, I think the only flaw was the audio was just a hair
more distorted than the other tapes, and we had maybe a two or three tiny
bursts of static here and there, but it was totally usable. It completely
saved the production from total disaster.

If I can give you some advice: next time, either go with two (preferably
AC-operated) DAT decks, using standard 2-hour tapes and an external mike
mixer, or consider using a laptop computer and sound card, and record
directly to the hard drive.

--MFW

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The start-ID information is not recorded on the main audio track, I do
not believe. This would seem like the result of a poor head wrap.
You
now have a tape that has A-time and start-IDs but no data, right?

Yes, that's it. Would you rthink there's something to repair / clean on my
DAT heads or is it just the conception of the TCD-D7 which is bad ? It has
10 years old i think. However the 3 hours tape was brand new. That was the
first time i was using it.

You might try some of the data recovery guys... there is one fellow on
r.a.m.p.s who has a very good reputation for salvaging some badly made
tapes. But if indeed the track is bad, there is probably nothing to
be done.

I see

This is why the better DAT machines have confidence monitoring. It's
awfully easy for things to go wrong with helical scan systems.

Just please tell me this wasn't a Sony portable with half-size heads.
--scott


Yes it was.

Thank you.

--
Lucius Snow
"I'm not here, this isn't happening" - Thom Yorke

Marc Wielage wrote:

Man, that is very tragic. I'm very sympathetic to your problem.

Unfortunately, the portable TCD-D7 transports are kind of flimsy.
They're a little flakey under the best of circumstances, except when
the machines are very new and well-cared for. The 3-hour DAT tapes
are terribly thin, and don't work very well on even heavy-duty
machines.

You can try contacting Bill Drucklieb:

Bill Drucklieb c/o
CinemaSonics, Inc.
Box 423
Oceanport, NJ 07757
(732) 571-3935
Email:
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/billdrucklieb/

Bill specializes in recovering audio back from bad DAT recordings,
but be warned your situation is a "worst-case" scenario. I know of a
case where he got fairly decent sound from a location DAT deck on a
commercial I worked on, and the results were nothing short of
miraculous. Even the timecode came back fine. In that case, I think
the only flaw was the audio was just a hair more distorted than the
other tapes, and we had maybe a two or three tiny bursts of static
here and there, but it was totally usable. It completely saved the
production from total disaster.

Yes, i read about him by doing a search on this newsgroup archives. I sent
him an email yersterday.

If I can give you some advice: next time, either go with two
(preferably AC-operated) DAT decks, using standard 2-hour tapes and
an external mike mixer, or consider using a laptop computer and sound
card, and record directly to the hard drive.

--MFW


Thank you for these advices. Next time, i'll certainly use a second machine
as a backup remplacement.

--
Lucius Snow
"I'm not here, this isn't happening" - Thom Yorke

Lucius Snow wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:


But don't be too dissappointed - if you did get it back you would be ****ed
off at it sounding pretty crappy anyway, if it's anything like the D7 I
once owned. Anything over -12dB harsh as hell, and anything under that
grainy as hell....

geoff

Lucius Snow wrote:

Marc Wielage wrote:


If I can give you some advice: next time, either go with two
(preferably AC-operated) DAT decks, using standard 2-hour tapes and
an external mike mixer, or consider using a laptop computer and sound
card, and record directly to the hard drive.

--MFW

Thank you for these advices. Next time, i'll certainly use a second machine
as a backup remplacement.

And please don't ignore the standard 2 hour tape recommendation. Audio
DAT machines really don't like anything longer.

Cheers.

James.

Geoff Wood wrote:

[ ... ] if it's anything like the D7 I once owned. Anything over
-12dB harsh as hell, and anything under that grainy as hell....

The TCD-D7 and -D8 have "digital" (bar) meters but they do not respond to
digital signal levels directly, i.e. they are driven by analog circuitry
with conventional rectifiers. I've seen them under-read signal peaks by
5 dB or more on live music. The "OVER" lights work properly but when you
see "OVER" indications on -6 dB peaks (according to the meters) you know
that something is a little fishy.

In addition, the built-in mike preamps are designed only for dynamic
microphones (or Sony-consumer-style electret microphones that have no
greater sensitivity than the average dynamic microphone); they overload
drastically when fed levels typical of professional condenser microphones.

--best regards

In article ,
(David Satz) wrote:

Geoff Wood wrote:

[ ... ] if it's anything like the D7 I once owned. Anything over
-12dB harsh as hell, and anything under that grainy as hell....

The TCD-D7 and -D8 have "digital" (bar) meters but they do not respond to
digital signal levels directly, i.e. they are driven by analog circuitry
with conventional rectifiers. I've seen them under-read signal peaks by
5 dB or more on live music. The "OVER" lights work properly but when you
see "OVER" indications on -6 dB peaks (according to the meters) you know
that something is a little fishy.

In addition, the built-in mike preamps are designed only for dynamic
microphones (or Sony-consumer-style electret microphones that have no
greater sensitivity than the average dynamic microphone); they overload
drastically when fed levels typical of professional condenser microphones.

--best regards

If the transport on these machines (Sony D7 and D8 portable DAT recorders)
is OK you can get good results by using an external preamp/converter
feeding into the little digital interface box (sorry can't remember the
model number) that Sony make just for the purpose. SPDIF and lightpipe in
and out, mains powered only though.

--
Mike Clayton

Mike Clayton wrote:

If the transport on these machines (Sony D7 and D8 portable DAT
recorders) is OK you can get good results by using an external
preamp/converter feeding into the little digital interface box (sorry
can't remember the model number) that Sony make just for the purpose.
SPDIF and lightpipe in and out, mains powered only though.

That's the RMR-D3, i'm using it to copy digitally my DAT to my computer.

--
Lucius Snow
"I'm not here, this isn't happening" - Thom Yorke