This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that kind of
dough.

Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O at some
point!

-jeff

i have 2 of them and like them. I have 2 motu 2408 II's and think the
alesis sound better then those - as a point of reference. In comparison,
they are a much smoother high end and overall across the spectrum. I
have had no problems with them in the 4 or so years I have been using
them. They don't get too hot... don't know what else to say about them
other then I have 2 and actually am planning on buying another at some
point. I have seen them for about 200 on ebay.

Handywired wrote:

This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that kind of
dough.

Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O at some
point!

-jeff

i have 2 of them and like them. I have 2 motu 2408 II's and think the
alesis sound better then those - as a point of reference. In comparison,
they are a much smoother high end and overall across the spectrum. I
have had no problems with them in the 4 or so years I have been using
them. They don't get too hot... don't know what else to say about them
other then I have 2 and actually am planning on buying another at some
point. I have seen them for about 200 on ebay.

Handywired wrote:

This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that kind of
dough.

Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O at some
point!

-jeff

Handywired wrote:
This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that kind of
dough.

Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O at some
point!

-jeff

We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in live
sound, and have had no problems with either.

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

Differences:

AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230

AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters

AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR

Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output connector.
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates
its own clock.

Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect to
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

Handywired wrote:
This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that kind of
dough.

Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O at some
point!

-jeff

We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in live
sound, and have had no problems with either.

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

Differences:

AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230

AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters

AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR

Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output connector.
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates
its own clock.

Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect to
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device that's
compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in reverse,
translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog with
24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it sounds
but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20 bit write
up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release the unit
was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been able to
nail this down as true or not.

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:

Handywired wrote:

This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of
I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500
range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that
kind of
dough.
Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes
with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O
at some
point!

-jeff


We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in live
sound, and have had no problems with either.

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

Differences:

AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230

AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters

AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR

Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output connector.
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates
its own clock.

Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect to
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device that's
compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in reverse,
translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog with
24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it sounds
but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20 bit write
up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release the unit
was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been able to
nail this down as true or not.

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:

Handywired wrote:

This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels of
I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?

It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500
range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend that
kind of
dough.
Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two passes
with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 I/O
at some
point!

-jeff


We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in live
sound, and have had no problems with either.

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

Differences:

AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230

AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters

AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR

Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output connector.
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates
its own clock.

Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect to
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

I believe the new AI-3 are 24 bit , and may be the same converters that =
are in the ADA-8000=20
( the ones in the ADA-8000 are made by Alesis)
They are available from a few different places for $370-$400 new .
NSL has them for $370.05 delivered=20
=
http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/p...os/alesis/ale=
sismultitracks.html#AI3
There are new ADA-8000 's on Ebay from a dealer for $207 delivered.=20
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&item=3D373 =
2638347
There is also the Creamware A16 Ultra 1RU with 16 channels of 24/48 =
(ADAT) or 16 at 24/96 (ZLINK) $849

I have done business with NSL without any problems but not audiobargain =
, I am not endorsing either...

Good Luck
Port
--=20

"Garth D. Wiebe" wrote in message =
...
Handywired wrote:
This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels =
of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?
=20
It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 =
range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend =
that kind of
dough.=20
=20
Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two =
passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 =
I/O at so
point!
=20
-jeff
=20
We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in =
live=20
sound, and have had no problems with either.
=20
We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and =

have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use =
this=20
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.
=20
Differences:
=20
AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230
=20
AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters
=20
AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR
=20
Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output =
connector.=20
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates =

its own clock.
=20
Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect =
to=20
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising=20
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

I believe the new AI-3 are 24 bit , and may be the same converters that =
are in the ADA-8000=20
( the ones in the ADA-8000 are made by Alesis)
They are available from a few different places for $370-$400 new .
NSL has them for $370.05 delivered=20
=
http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/p...os/alesis/ale=
sismultitracks.html#AI3
There are new ADA-8000 's on Ebay from a dealer for $207 delivered.=20
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&item=3D373 =
2638347
There is also the Creamware A16 Ultra 1RU with 16 channels of 24/48 =
(ADAT) or 16 at 24/96 (ZLINK) $849

I have done business with NSL without any problems but not audiobargain =
, I am not endorsing either...

Good Luck
Port
--=20

"Garth D. Wiebe" wrote in message =
...
Handywired wrote:
This looks like the least expensive way to get eight more channels =
of I/O for
my ProTools LE setup. Anyone tried it?
=20
It appears that I can choose between several products in the $500 =
range, or
then it jumps to more like the $1500-$3000 range. I can't spend =
that kind of
dough.=20
=20
Right now I can transfer my 16 tracks "from the analog" in two =
passes with
SMPTE, so it's not a crises, but it would sure be nice to have 16 =
I/O at so
point!
=20
-jeff
=20
We have two Alesis AI3 units. We use one in the studio and one in =
live=20
sound, and have had no problems with either.
=20
We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and =

have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use =
this=20
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.
=20
Differences:
=20
AI3: $400
ADA8000: $230
=20
AI3: 20-bit converters
ADA8000: 24-bit converters
=20
AI3: 8-line in TRS, 8-line out TRS
ADA8000: 8-line/mic in TRS/XLR, 8-line out XLR
=20
Problem with AI3: No word clock select, no word clock output =
connector.=20
If optical input is present, it syncs to that. If not, it generates =

its own clock.
=20
Problem with ADA8000: Analog output signal is inverted with respect =
to=20
digital input. XLR outputs mean adapters if you need TRS, raising=20
effective price of unit. There is no word clock output BNC connector.

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

don't you?

bye
stef

We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

don't you?

bye
stef

Danny Taddei wrote:
Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device that's
compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in reverse,
translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog with
24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it sounds
but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20 bit write
up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release the unit
was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been able to
nail this down as true or not.

Hmmm. My manual, and the one you can right now download from their
website, says "20 bit". But their web page for their product says "24
bit". The PDF file for their manual has "Created 11/08/1999 1:07:00 PM"
and "Modified 09/13/2002 10:24:56 AM".

Well, we'll just have to open it up and take a look inside. Stay tuned.

Danny Taddei wrote:
Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device that's
compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in reverse,
translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog with
24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it sounds
but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20 bit write
up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release the unit
was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been able to
nail this down as true or not.

Hmmm. My manual, and the one you can right now download from their
website, says "20 bit". But their web page for their product says "24
bit". The PDF file for their manual has "Created 11/08/1999 1:07:00 PM"
and "Modified 09/13/2002 10:24:56 AM".

Well, we'll just have to open it up and take a look inside. Stay tuned.

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:
Danny Taddei wrote:

Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device
that's compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in
reverse, translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog
with 24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it
sounds but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20
bit write up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release
the unit was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been
able to nail this down as true or not.


Hmmm. My manual, and the one you can right now download from their
website, says "20 bit". But their web page for their product says "24
bit". The PDF file for their manual has "Created 11/08/1999 1:07:00 PM"
and "Modified 09/13/2002 10:24:56 AM".

Well, we'll just have to open it up and take a look inside. Stay tuned.

And the verdict: Crystal Semiconductor CS4220-KS chip. 24-bit.

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:
Danny Taddei wrote:

Garth,

I have a question maybe you can answer-
Quoting from the alesis web site:
ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range. The digital signal can be
routed through the ADAT Optical digital interface into any device
that's compatible with the ADAT Optical format. The AI-3 also works in
reverse, translating ADAT Optical digital audio signals back to analog
with 24-bit precision.

The question is: Is the AI-3 20 bit or 24 bit? IT sounds like it
sounds but I am very curious because as I understand it, all the 20
bit write up was done before the release of the unit. Then, at release
the unit was actually 24 bit do to advances and so on. I've never been
able to nail this down as true or not.


Hmmm. My manual, and the one you can right now download from their
website, says "20 bit". But their web page for their product says "24
bit". The PDF file for their manual has "Created 11/08/1999 1:07:00 PM"
and "Modified 09/13/2002 10:24:56 AM".

Well, we'll just have to open it up and take a look inside. Stay tuned.

And the verdict: Crystal Semiconductor CS4220-KS chip. 24-bit.

s.stef wrote:
We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.


I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

don't you?

bye
stef

See plots posted at URL noted above. The relevant scan is as follows:

Input trims at max, no cables connected to inputs, 10 second recording:

http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000_FFT_mic_nc.gif

You can see 60 cycle hum and harmonics: 60 Hz @-72dB, 180 Hz @-84dB, 300
Hz @-88dB, 120 Hz @-90dB, 420 Hz @-93dB, etc.

Hiss and other high frequency noise looks to be under the -102dB mark.

s.stef wrote:
We also have the Behringer ADA8000, which is a bit less expensive, and
have tested it. (See http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm) We use this
for live sound and have had no problems with it either.


I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

don't you?

bye
stef

See plots posted at URL noted above. The relevant scan is as follows:

Input trims at max, no cables connected to inputs, 10 second recording:

http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000_FFT_mic_nc.gif

You can see 60 cycle hum and harmonics: 60 Hz @-72dB, 180 Hz @-84dB, 300
Hz @-88dB, 120 Hz @-90dB, 420 Hz @-93dB, etc.

Hiss and other high frequency noise looks to be under the -102dB mark.

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:


And the verdict: Crystal Semiconductor CS4220-KS chip. 24-bit.


What would dummies like me do without the smart guys to help us out :-)

Thanks

Garth D. Wiebe wrote:


And the verdict: Crystal Semiconductor CS4220-KS chip. 24-bit.


What would dummies like me do without the smart guys to help us out :-)

Thanks

In article writes:

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

I would expect that of a mic preamp at that price point. Remember,
you're getting an 8-channel A/D converter, an 8-channel D/A converter,
and eight mic preamps for, what? $300? If it's reasonably quiet when
using line level analog inputs, forget the mic preamps. They're free
anyway.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

I would expect that of a mic preamp at that price point. Remember,
you're getting an 8-channel A/D converter, an 8-channel D/A converter,
and eight mic preamps for, what? $300? If it's reasonably quiet when
using line level analog inputs, forget the mic preamps. They're free
anyway.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Danny Taddei wrote in
news:4oiDc.3784$z81.1584@fed1read01:

ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range.

If it only has a 96 dB dynamic range then it's supplying 16 bits of usable
information regardless of the number of bits in the word.

Danny Taddei wrote in
news:4oiDc.3784$z81.1584@fed1read01:

ADAT Digital Interface from the Creators of ADAT
The AI-3 provides eight analog inputs and outputs on balanced 1/4" TRS
connectors. These jacks feed 24-bit, 128 times oversampling A/D/A
converters, offering a 96dB dynamic range.

If it only has a 96 dB dynamic range then it's supplying 16 bits of usable
information regardless of the number of bits in the word.

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1088297039k@trad...
In article writes:

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

I would expect that of a mic preamp at that price point. Remember,
you're getting an 8-channel A/D converter, an 8-channel D/A converter,
and eight mic preamps for, what? $300? If it's reasonably quiet when
using line level analog inputs, forget the mic preamps. They're free
anyway.


Only $200 actually.

Jesse

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1088297039k@trad...
In article writes:

I heared the ADA8000 is noisy at high gain (mic preamp) levels.

I would expect that of a mic preamp at that price point. Remember,
you're getting an 8-channel A/D converter, an 8-channel D/A converter,
and eight mic preamps for, what? $300? If it's reasonably quiet when
using line level analog inputs, forget the mic preamps. They're free
anyway.


Only $200 actually.

Jesse

Carey Carlan wrote:



If it only has a 96 dB dynamic range then it's supplying 16 bits of usable
information regardless of the number of bits in the word.

I have no way or idea how to test it but i do know that I like the sound
better then the motu mkii that they sit in a rack with and spec at
105db. I that when the spec sheet was drawn up they were using test data
from the original unit that was a 20 bit converter.

I think somehow someone got lazy and that the ai-3 is an unsung hero for
the price. they don't sound like a million dollar studio but they are
much better then a 16 bit converter. I'd say that they are indeed better
then the motu mkii.

Carey Carlan wrote:



If it only has a 96 dB dynamic range then it's supplying 16 bits of usable
information regardless of the number of bits in the word.

I have no way or idea how to test it but i do know that I like the sound
better then the motu mkii that they sit in a rack with and spec at
105db. I that when the spec sheet was drawn up they were using test data
from the original unit that was a 20 bit converter.

I think somehow someone got lazy and that the ai-3 is an unsung hero for
the price. they don't sound like a million dollar studio but they are
much better then a 16 bit converter. I'd say that they are indeed better
then the motu mkii.

"Garth D. Wiebe" wrote in message


And the verdict: Crystal Semiconductor CS4220-KS chip. 24-bit.

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/cs4220-3.pdf

It's a 95-100 dB dynamic range part. 16-17 usable bits at the most.