Okay, I admit: I take too long to read the magazines that come my way,
but I just read an interview in the Tape Op (latest edition?) that
mentioned AT 4033s right after EV RE20s as bass cab mic's. The
interviewee mentioned that they need to be back a bit from the cab.

Here's my question: have any of you used AT 4033s as bass cab mic's,
and if so, what general positioning and what cabs?

I have a couple AT 4033a's and I am always looking to maximize my
assets. I have previously ruled them out after A/B comparisons on
bass. I don't have an EV RE20, but I do have an ATM-25 and a couple
of AT PRO25s as well as several cheap MXL LDCs, many SM57s and even a
pair of EV 664s that all sounded better on my 2x15" cab. Have I been
missing something? Placing the 4033's too close?

Please share if you have used At 4033's on bass cabs. Thanks.

In article ,
(Darrell Klein) wrote:
Okay, I admit: I take too long to read the magazines that come my way,
but I just read an interview in the Tape Op (latest edition?) that
mentioned AT 4033s right after EV RE20s as bass cab mic's. The
interviewee mentioned that they need to be back a bit from the cab.

Here's my question: have any of you used AT 4033s as bass cab mic's,
and if so, what general positioning and what cabs?

I have a couple AT 4033a's and I am always looking to maximize my
assets. I have previously ruled them out after A/B comparisons on
bass. I don't have an EV RE20, but I do have an ATM-25 and a couple
of AT PRO25s as well as several cheap MXL LDCs, many SM57s and even a
pair of EV 664s that all sounded better on my 2x15" cab. Have I been
missing something? Placing the 4033's too close?

Please share if you have used At 4033's on bass cabs. Thanks.

Well, I'm a jerk because I'm replying but I haven't explicitly used a
4033 on a bass cabinet.

But, the point I wanted to make is that if you did the work and A/B'ed
the 4033 against other mikes you own and the 4033 came in last place,
then you need not wonder whether your opinion is at fault. No other
opinion is worth more to you than your opinion. No other opinion has
more relevance to the way you work and hear things than your opinion.

The whole reason why people seek other opinions is either to save the
time that it takes to form their own opinion or to validate their own
opinions against someone else's. I contend that the second situation is
a waste of time. Who really cares what some other person wants to use
to record a bass cab. Don't get me wrong - it's interesting in an
"expand my range of techniques and approaches" sense, but it's not going
to make me think that techniques that I have proven to sound bad to me
or to work contrary to my mix style are now somehow right.

You have already tried the 4033 and didn't like it. Perhaps the other
engineer who wrote about the 4033 works differently than you, so the
problems you have with the 4033 don't happen in their world. Perhaps
they don't hear the things that a 4033 does as wrong - the character
that a 4033 has on bass might help their situation out. And also,
perhaps they aren't as good of an engineer as you so they're not
expecting things to sound as good as you are; perhaps what you think of
as mediocre sound from the 4033 is really great to them. Lots of
possibilities...

....but all of them are irrelevant. Maybe revisit the 4033 next time...
maybe stick with what you know works well for you. Your choice. I'd
try a completely different mike altogether if you want to make some
progress. Learn something new and don't worry about determining whether
you actually know what you know.


Regards,

Monte McGuire

Darrell Klein wrote:

missing something? Placing the 4033's too close?

Dunno. But placing mic(s) too close is the default error in miking
loudspeaker cabinets.

Please share if you have used At 4033's on bass cabs. Thanks.

If you have other mics that do well, then it surely is extremely
cost-inefficient to use the 4033 for the bass cab.

Other than that I agree with Monte's rant, it was about time that
someone posted something like that, thanks Monte!


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

In article writes:

I have a couple AT 4033a's and I am always looking to maximize my
assets. I have previously ruled them out after A/B comparisons on
bass. I don't have an EV RE20, but I do have an ATM-25 and a couple
of AT PRO25s as well as several cheap MXL LDCs, many SM57s and even a
pair of EV 664s that all sounded better on my 2x15" cab. Have I been
missing something? Placing the 4033's too close?

Possibly. Or maybe they just don't get the tone you're after with the
amplifier you have, in the room you're working.

Before you rule them out, you really should experiment more than just
placing Mic A next to Mic B, and listening. How did you decide on the
favorite that's in your present collection? Just put it there and it
worked? If so, you're lucky. If you moved it around until you found
the right sound (and found out what didn't work, or what worked
differently in case you want a different sound), then you should do so
with another mic that you want to evaluate.

It may be that finding a spot for the 4033 that matches the radiation
of the cabinet gives you something that you don't get with your other
mics. Any mic can be in the wrong position for a given situation.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

I've used an AT 4033a on bass cabinet with good results. The trick is
I used it in conjunction with another mic. I've found that with a 10"
speaker, an Ampeg 4X10 cabinet in this case, the 4033 emphasizes the
higher frequencies and may not capture the perfect bass sound by
itself. I've used it together with a Beyerdynamic M380, which is
great for the low end, but overall, a little dull sounding. I place
the mics on seperate speakers at the same distance (close to the
grill) to avoid phase problems. Blend the two mics together and you
get a good balanced sound and the flexibility to emphasis either
depending on the song. I first heard about this combination on the
Electrical Audio website (www.electrical.com) or in a post by Steve
Albini. I've also used a Rode NT1 instead of the 4033 with a similar
result.
Generally speaking, I would choose the 4033/M380 combo for an
aggressive rock sound and an RE20 by itself for more mellow and modest
bass tone.
I've found my 4033 to be incredibly flexible. It's a much more useful
inexpensive microphone than any of the Chinese mics everyone is
buying. My MXL V67G mic sits on the shelf and the 4033 is used on
almost every session.
Good Luck!

On 20 Jun 2004 19:32:03 -0700, (Darrell Klein)
wrote:

Okay, I admit: I take too long to read the magazines that come my way,
but I just read an interview in the Tape Op (latest edition?) that
mentioned AT 4033s right after EV RE20s as bass cab mic's. The
interviewee mentioned that they need to be back a bit from the cab.

Here's my question: have any of you used AT 4033s as bass cab mic's,
and if so, what general positioning and what cabs?

I have a couple AT 4033a's and I am always looking to maximize my
assets. I have previously ruled them out after A/B comparisons on
bass. I don't have an EV RE20, but I do have an ATM-25 and a couple
of AT PRO25s as well as several cheap MXL LDCs, many SM57s and even a
pair of EV 664s that all sounded better on my 2x15" cab. Have I been
missing something? Placing the 4033's too close?

Please share if you have used At 4033's on bass cabs. Thanks.

I have used LDC's on bass cabs, but not the AT4033. The big issue for
me is, what cab? It's not easy to get a full sound out of a 2x15, in
my opinion. It needs a big room, the mic must move back, and I still
find that it lacks definition. If you must mic a 2x15, also track a DI
and mix to taste - with possibly a slight delay on the DI track to
bring it into phase coherence with the mic.
Mike T.

Thanks Jeff and also Mike Tulley. I will try the AT 4033s on a pair
12" EVs that I can also run bass through. I do use the mic'd cab in
conjunction with a DI signal.

To everyone else, I take the blame for being unclear with my question,
and perhaps not including enough background information. I have done
an extensive comparison with all the mic's in my so-called "cabinet"
and on all of the bass cabs that I have available (except for the 12"
EV "guitar" speakers I will now also try). I have also experimented
with and compared different placement positions with the same mic.

I could have/should have asked my question like this: while I have
found acceptable bass sounds using other mic's, I also have a pair of
AT 4033s which I understand other folks get good bass sounds from. I
am looking to maximize my flexibility, so I want to learn how to use
the AT 4033s on a bass cab. I have a 2x15" cab that I often use for
bass. Does anyone have any general tips for starters as in distance
from the cab or "on" or "off" axis that they have personal experience
with in the use of AT 4033s on a bass cab? The genre is loud rock. The
room is 24'x14'x 8'

Thanks!



(Jeff Deff) wrote in message . com...
I've used an AT 4033a on bass cabinet with good results. The trick is
I used it in conjunction with another mic. I've found that with a 10"
speaker, an Ampeg 4X10 cabinet in this case, the 4033 emphasizes the
higher frequencies and may not capture the perfect bass sound by
itself. I've used it together with a Beyerdynamic M380, which is
great for the low end, but overall, a little dull sounding. I place
the mics on seperate speakers at the same distance (close to the
grill) to avoid phase problems. Blend the two mics together and you
get a good balanced sound and the flexibility to emphasis either
depending on the song. I first heard about this combination on the
Electrical Audio website (www.electrical.com) or in a post by Steve
Albini. I've also used a Rode NT1 instead of the 4033 with a similar
result.
Generally speaking, I would choose the 4033/M380 combo for an
aggressive rock sound and an RE20 by itself for more mellow and modest
bass tone.
I've found my 4033 to be incredibly flexible. It's a much more useful
inexpensive microphone than any of the Chinese mics everyone is
buying. My MXL V67G mic sits on the shelf and the 4033 is used on
almost every session.
Good Luck!

In article writes:

I could have/should have asked my question like this: while I have
found acceptable bass sounds using other mic's, I also have a pair of
AT 4033s which I understand other folks get good bass sounds from. I
am looking to maximize my flexibility, so I want to learn how to use
the AT 4033s on a bass cab. I have a 2x15" cab that I often use for
bass. Does anyone have any general tips for starters as in distance
from the cab or "on" or "off" axis that they have personal experience
with in the use of AT 4033s on a bass cab? The genre is loud rock. The
room is 24'x14'x 8'

Say, now that's a good question. I don't have the answer, but you
could probably determine it yourself with some experimenting.

I would think that the 4033 shouldn't be too far off any other mic
once you find the right position for that cabinet in your room, but
that's the tricky part.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Jeff Deff wrote:

I've used an AT 4033a on bass cabinet with good results. The trick is
I used it in conjunction with another mic.

I've used it together with a Beyerdynamic M380, which is

I've also used a Rode NT1 instead of the 4033 with a similar
result.

I guess if you use 2 mics, one for the lows, one for the highs you can
take nearly every small dia. condensor. I used a C451 together with a
D112 in a similar application with very good results (after testing some
other mics). The critcal part are not the high high but to capture the
lows, lower mids (not to much) and mids for the "tone" in a good
balance.
Bassdrums mics generally should be good for this. Because they have
enough low end, reduces the low mids and boost a high mids a little bit.
They are not neutral of course, but the can improve the sound. It
depends what you want. Only as an idea.

Jeff Deff wrote:

I've used an AT 4033a on bass cabinet with good results. The trick is
I used it in conjunction with another mic.

I've used it together with a Beyerdynamic M380, which is

I've also used a Rode NT1 instead of the 4033 with a similar
result.

I guess if you use 2 mics, one for the lows, one for the highs you can
take nearly every small dia. condensor. I used a C451 together with a
D112 in a similar application with very good results (after testing some
other mics). The critcal part are not the high high but to capture the
lows, lower mids (not to much) and mids for the "tone" in a good
balance.
Bassdrums mics generally should be good for this. Because they have
enough low end, reduces the low mids and boost a high mids a little bit.
They are not neutral of course, but the can improve the sound. It
depends what you want. Only as an idea.