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#161
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WillStG wrote:
Because Marxism while it claims to be "Socialistic" in values in fact just substituted one ruling elite for the previous one, and a far more ruthless and britual class of rulers at that. No, that's what the USSR did in the name of Marx. What Marx actually said was that we couldn't get there until after the world had experienced the excesses of capitalism. And the corporate world (a ruthless and brutal ruling elite itself) is rushing headlong to prove Marx was RIGHT with every turn. |
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#162
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WillStG wrote:
Because Marxism while it claims to be "Socialistic" in values in fact just substituted one ruling elite for the previous one, and a far more ruthless and britual class of rulers at that. No, that's what the USSR did in the name of Marx. What Marx actually said was that we couldn't get there until after the world had experienced the excesses of capitalism. And the corporate world (a ruthless and brutal ruling elite itself) is rushing headlong to prove Marx was RIGHT with every turn. |
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#163
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Hey, don't blame Marx for the horrible failures of Leninism. Also
realize that political failures don't necessarily invalidate an economic philosophy. --scott -- This sounds like arguing with George about Christianity. John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#164
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Hey, don't blame Marx for the horrible failures of Leninism. Also
realize that political failures don't necessarily invalidate an economic philosophy. --scott -- This sounds like arguing with George about Christianity. John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#166
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#167
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
WillStG wrote: Because aguably anarchism and a belief in the rule of law are diametrically opposed points of view . Because Marxism while it claims to be "Socialistic" in values in fact just substituted one ruling elite for the previous one, and a far more ruthless and britual class of rulers at that. Hey, don't blame Marx for the horrible failures of Leninism. Also realize that political failures don't necessarily invalidate an economic philosophy. --scott Christopher Hitchens, "The Last Trotskyite", has turned apostate. Marx failed on basic economic grounds, anyway. -- Les Cargill |
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#168
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
WillStG wrote: Because aguably anarchism and a belief in the rule of law are diametrically opposed points of view . Because Marxism while it claims to be "Socialistic" in values in fact just substituted one ruling elite for the previous one, and a far more ruthless and britual class of rulers at that. Hey, don't blame Marx for the horrible failures of Leninism. Also realize that political failures don't necessarily invalidate an economic philosophy. --scott Christopher Hitchens, "The Last Trotskyite", has turned apostate. Marx failed on basic economic grounds, anyway. -- Les Cargill |
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#169
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Johnston West wrote: I'm no marist or communist, but I can't help thinking alot lately about it's basic primis and question ..... "who controls the means of production"... and distribution. And to what end. What ends justify any means, or rather what ends require no justification? Answer that quesiton and you've found what this is all about. It's not about having all the marbles, it's about having the last one. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#170
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Johnston West wrote: I'm no marist or communist, but I can't help thinking alot lately about it's basic primis and question ..... "who controls the means of production"... and distribution. And to what end. What ends justify any means, or rather what ends require no justification? Answer that quesiton and you've found what this is all about. It's not about having all the marbles, it's about having the last one. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#171
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nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#172
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nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#173
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#174
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#176
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#177
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Bob Cain wrote in message ...
nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. |
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#178
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Bob Cain wrote in message ...
nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. |
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#180
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ospam (WillStG) wrote in message ...
(Scott Dorsey) BRBR Hey, don't blame Marx for the horrible failures of Leninism. Also realize that political failures don't necessarily invalidate an economic philosophy. BRBR Thank God the fall of the Iron Curtain showed the Third World nations that Marxist economics and Political ideology is a bull**** 19th Century dogma. Cuba is working far better than any of the US sponsered Cliptocracies of Central and South America. They have 100% Literacy, and better medical care than the United States. Angola was saved from South African and Rhodesian mercenaries by the Cuban Army. But obviously William J Miho would rather have the rape rooms of Abu Gahrib prison, in his ideal 3rd world service nations. The Soviets Defeated Hitler, Why are you trying to bring back Imperial Japan Tojo? |
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#181
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the ideals of
Democracy will perish. so this is all about forcing our "democracy" on a soviergn nation? What a bunch of assholes Americans are, if this is the root of this war. Maybe we should force our national religion on them as well. George |
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#182
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the ideals of
Democracy will perish. so this is all about forcing our "democracy" on a soviergn nation? What a bunch of assholes Americans are, if this is the root of this war. Maybe we should force our national religion on them as well. George |
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#183
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WillStG wrote:
S O'Neill BRBR What Marx actually said was that we couldn't get there until after the world had experienced the excesses of capitalism. And the corporate world (a ruthless and brutal ruling elite itself) is rushing headlong to prove Marx was RIGHT with every turn BRBR That the Marxist States were merely in a "transitional state of socialism" on their way to the perfect Marxist State may be true to Marx's writings, but it fails to explain *why* that transitional period is neccessary for Nations that have basically no relationships with the outside world, and after they have murdered virtually all "reactionary elements" in their society. Oh yeah, the lack of faith in Dialectical Materialism of the just one or two reactionaries left, that's the problem, find them and kill them too for "they are the reason you suffer"! Yeah, just murder and starve a few/couple hundred million people to death, and we'll all be living in "Paradise"... That's the claim, and it's not just what the USSR did in the name of Marx, it's what they ALL did. And for a faith in a Prophet of a materialistic philosophy with far less of a basis in reason and heart than that of a God based religion. Very superstitious this atheistic faith, and extremely bloody. Great, you agree with my first sentence, the one you left out or the quote. Now read the part you left in. What about that? |
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#184
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WillStG wrote:
S O'Neill BRBR What Marx actually said was that we couldn't get there until after the world had experienced the excesses of capitalism. And the corporate world (a ruthless and brutal ruling elite itself) is rushing headlong to prove Marx was RIGHT with every turn BRBR That the Marxist States were merely in a "transitional state of socialism" on their way to the perfect Marxist State may be true to Marx's writings, but it fails to explain *why* that transitional period is neccessary for Nations that have basically no relationships with the outside world, and after they have murdered virtually all "reactionary elements" in their society. Oh yeah, the lack of faith in Dialectical Materialism of the just one or two reactionaries left, that's the problem, find them and kill them too for "they are the reason you suffer"! Yeah, just murder and starve a few/couple hundred million people to death, and we'll all be living in "Paradise"... That's the claim, and it's not just what the USSR did in the name of Marx, it's what they ALL did. And for a faith in a Prophet of a materialistic philosophy with far less of a basis in reason and heart than that of a God based religion. Very superstitious this atheistic faith, and extremely bloody. Great, you agree with my first sentence, the one you left out or the quote. Now read the part you left in. What about that? |
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#185
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O'Neill..
Having a hard time reading your posts as the quoted text and your reply all run together...maybe a server quirk? John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#186
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O'Neill..
Having a hard time reading your posts as the quoted text and your reply all run together...maybe a server quirk? John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#187
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Blind Joni wrote:
O'Neill.. Having a hard time reading your posts as the quoted text and your reply all run together...maybe a server quirk? [extra blank lines this time] I guess so, or a newsreader quirk. I try to edit and format for clarity (and usually try to write that way too), and I see them come back pretty much like I format them. Do the extra blank lines help? |
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#188
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Blind Joni wrote:
O'Neill.. Having a hard time reading your posts as the quoted text and your reply all run together...maybe a server quirk? [extra blank lines this time] I guess so, or a newsreader quirk. I try to edit and format for clarity (and usually try to write that way too), and I see them come back pretty much like I format them. Do the extra blank lines help? |
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#189
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Do the extra blank lines help?
Much better. John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#190
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Do the extra blank lines help?
Much better. John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#191
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(Nmm) wrote in message . com...
Bob Cain wrote in message ... nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. I saw the Berg video. It made me physically ill....... But as bad and frightening as it was, I was wondering why it wasn't bloodier. No spurting blood or large pools as you would expect for this sort of trauma. ........Otherwise I assumed that it was real. J_West |
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#192
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(Nmm) wrote in message . com...
Bob Cain wrote in message ... nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. I saw the Berg video. It made me physically ill....... But as bad and frightening as it was, I was wondering why it wasn't bloodier. No spurting blood or large pools as you would expect for this sort of trauma. ........Otherwise I assumed that it was real. J_West |
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#193
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(Johnston West) wrote in message . com...
(Nmm) wrote in message . com... Bob Cain wrote in message ... nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. I saw the Berg video. It made me physically ill....... But as bad and frightening as it was, I was wondering why it wasn't bloodier. No spurting blood or large pools as you would expect for this sort of trauma. .......Otherwise I assumed that it was real. J_West Certainly does make one wonder. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past this administration. |
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#194
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(Johnston West) wrote in message . com...
(Nmm) wrote in message . com... Bob Cain wrote in message ... nmm wrote: And it's all over the news now that the Berg Video was a fake.. Wake up. Where? Bob http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=2020 Al Jazeera has the video, clips and story. They also mention : that the videoo was not available from an arab only site, but american news somehow downloaded it. I saw the Berg video. It made me physically ill....... But as bad and frightening as it was, I was wondering why it wasn't bloodier. No spurting blood or large pools as you would expect for this sort of trauma. .......Otherwise I assumed that it was real. J_West Certainly does make one wonder. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past this administration. |
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#196
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#197
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#198
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#199
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ospam (WillStG) wrote in message ...
: S O'Neill Great, you agree with my first sentence, the one you left out or the quote. Now read the part you left in. What about that? Engels was pretty accurate I think in his criticisms of 19th Century Capitalism. But criticism however accurate does not mean that one has a better idea or any sort of solution for a problem. Unless one is a big fan of genocide, totalitarianism and mass murder of course - when done in the name of Democracy.. ie: School of the Americas ( which is still open! ) It's OK though Poppa Doc was a kind leader... and South Korea wasn't ready for elections til 1987 ( since there so called liberation in 1952) And the Democratically elected govvernment in Venezuala of Hugo Chavez, isn't really that democratic.. compared to the american supported narco-thugs, who suspended the constitution, electoral system, and civil rights. It's a good thing for them that upon their capture they were guarenteed the rights provided to them by the constitution that they tried to suspend. and history attests this is true. FWIW the Christian Socialist contemporaries of Marx and Engels also had accurate criticisms of Capitalism's problems, had they been listened to or more effective as voices for reform Marxist revolution and all the misery that followed might never have happened. like the more than 200% increase in teburculosis that has occured in the former Soviet Union. Or the elimination of the pension system that they had all worked for. Anyway the Capitalism of the 21st Century and that of the 19th Century are different in many regards. Some of the most basic differences is that most large Corporations are publically owned (by stocks) and most of those stocks rest with the richest 10% maybe 5%. except for those Ponzi scheme .com stocks, and Ponzi schemes like ENRON, etc. and there are anti-monopoly laws and rules about anti-competitive practices, the "dumping" of products into markets, etc. You mean like the breakup of Altec-Lansing? OH wait doesn't Harmon Intl own both Altec and JBL now.. Don't they also own Studer, UREI, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath... and most of the other companies we have to deal with? |
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#200
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ospam (WillStG) wrote in message ...
: S O'Neill Great, you agree with my first sentence, the one you left out or the quote. Now read the part you left in. What about that? Engels was pretty accurate I think in his criticisms of 19th Century Capitalism. But criticism however accurate does not mean that one has a better idea or any sort of solution for a problem. Unless one is a big fan of genocide, totalitarianism and mass murder of course - when done in the name of Democracy.. ie: School of the Americas ( which is still open! ) It's OK though Poppa Doc was a kind leader... and South Korea wasn't ready for elections til 1987 ( since there so called liberation in 1952) And the Democratically elected govvernment in Venezuala of Hugo Chavez, isn't really that democratic.. compared to the american supported narco-thugs, who suspended the constitution, electoral system, and civil rights. It's a good thing for them that upon their capture they were guarenteed the rights provided to them by the constitution that they tried to suspend. and history attests this is true. FWIW the Christian Socialist contemporaries of Marx and Engels also had accurate criticisms of Capitalism's problems, had they been listened to or more effective as voices for reform Marxist revolution and all the misery that followed might never have happened. like the more than 200% increase in teburculosis that has occured in the former Soviet Union. Or the elimination of the pension system that they had all worked for. Anyway the Capitalism of the 21st Century and that of the 19th Century are different in many regards. Some of the most basic differences is that most large Corporations are publically owned (by stocks) and most of those stocks rest with the richest 10% maybe 5%. except for those Ponzi scheme .com stocks, and Ponzi schemes like ENRON, etc. and there are anti-monopoly laws and rules about anti-competitive practices, the "dumping" of products into markets, etc. You mean like the breakup of Altec-Lansing? OH wait doesn't Harmon Intl own both Altec and JBL now.. Don't they also own Studer, UREI, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath... and most of the other companies we have to deal with? |
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