Last studio I have was 1/2 tape analog, so used to running everything as hot
as possible. I now use a hard dick recorder ( zoom mrs 1266 ) just for
putting down ideas at home. When I mix down, burn a cd, and listen on
various players, it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared to
other cd's. I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip on
this digital thing. Manual is very vague. Any ideas? Set me straight!
Thanks
Mike

Mike wrote
Last studio I have was 1/2 tape analog, so used to running everything as hot
as possible. I now use a hard dick recorder ( zoom mrs 1266 ) just for
putting down ideas at home. When I mix down, burn a cd, and listen on
various players, it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared to
other cd's. I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip on
this digital thing. Manual is very vague. Any ideas? Set me straight!

I tried the Zoom MRS802 not to long ago and was very disappointed with
everything about it, the mic pres where very thin and the interface was not
very easy to operate. I also had to peak the heck out of the input to get
decent signal, and that made the sound harsh and dirty. I'm sure it was
compresed to.
On my Mac DAW (MOTU hardware and DP3) I always come up with a week two track
output from DP3 so I run it thru Peak LE and bring the gain up to a good level
before burning a CD. The meters on Peak LE are much better than the ones in
DP3, but I love to track and mix in DP3.

"Mike B" wrote in message
...
Last studio I have was 1/2 tape analog, so used to running everything as
hot
as possible.

You can still run things as hot as possible - it's just that "as hot as
possible" doens't include "overs" in the digital world.

I now use a hard dick recorder

I guess that means you like it a lot?


When I mix down, burn a cd, and listen on
various players, it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared
to
other cd's.

It's the way most CD's are mastered nowadays - mashed to hell with no
dynamics whatsoever - makes everything seem louder. If you're getting your
peaks up near "0", you're not doing anything wrong.

I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip on
this digital thing.

I'm not familiar with the particular recorder you refer to, but try a
compressor across the 2-buss, or inline with whatever yo're mixing down to
(depends on your configuration). Slam to taste. Or not, if you prefer some
dynamics.
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

Mike wrote
" it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared to
other cd's. I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip
on
this digital thing. Manual is very vague. Any ideas? Set me straight!

With digital you don't want to peak at 0 dB for more than 2 samples in a
row. This is very difficult to do manuallly when you want to max out the
volume on a CD. There has been a big trend over the last 7 years or so
among the major labels to get the CD itself to sound loud, vs. the radio
station to provide the loud sound. This negates the reason to have the 96
dB dynamic range of the audio CD standard. Here's a link to a good article
that explains this madness in a cool way, and I'm also a Rush fan and
realized this about their last CD as well:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/article...256C2E005DAF1C

If you want to get a comercial CD sound, you will need some sort of
multiband compression and limiting, and learn how to use it heavily. If you
just want to bring up the average volume so it is closer to commercial CD's,
but still retains the dynamic range of the unmastered mixdown, you can just
limit the very peaks, and then raise the overall gain so those peaks reach
minus 0.5dB or so.

This is where the TC Electronic Finalizer and it's simmilar copies and more
high level (and more expensive) units that are good for. Finalizer plus
goes for about $500 and Finalizer express goes for about $375 used on ebay.
IK multimedia makes a cartoon software version called T-Racks that runs on a
PC and only works with completed 2 track mixes as a standalone application.
A new-in-box copy just recently sold on ebay for $235.

I don't know your Zoom unit, but if you are trying to track, mixdown, and
burn the CD within the unit, then the Finalizer approach might be difficult,
unless you can play a 2-track mix out and record a different 2-track mix
back into the unit simultaneously. The Roland VS units are capable of this,
because the TC Finalizer can sync to a different clock on the input and
output simultaneously. If you have a PC and burn the CD there you can
bounce the 2-track mix into the PC and then process.

If this is just for basic ideas, you can use other methods if you already
have quality analog compressors. Set them up as limiters, and use them to
raise your input level to the mic pre's on the analog side by limiting the
loudest peaks during tracking. If you work at it for a while, you can find
the sweet spot of the mic pres in the zoom. It will make a big difference
in your overall mixdown. And if there is a digital compressor or limiter
that can be applied to the master section, you can then apply that to the
2-track mix prior to burning to CD.

I'm talking about pre-mastering really, only apply light to medium limiting
in these situations, and layer them, and you will get better results on the
final CD. You can then crank the compressors up to heavier limiting and
compression for desired effect when you want that sound. If you have a good
2-track analog recorder, you can bounce the mixdown to that and push the
output level into tape saturation for real analog limiting, and then bounce
that back to the place you burn your CD's from.

I would give all the above methods a try in a session of pure testing and
then listen to the finished pre-masters on various systems to see how they
sound.

Hope this helps,

Rick

In article writes:

I now use a hard dick [sic.] recorder ( zoom mrs 1266 ) just for
putting down ideas at home. When I mix down, burn a cd, and listen on
various players, it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared to
other cd's. I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip on
this digital thing. Manual is very vague. Any ideas? Set me straight!

It's not what you're doing, it's what you're doing it to, and what
you're comparing it with. I'll bet you never made CDs from your old
1/2" analog mixdowns, you made cassettes or maybe r/r "masters" or
maybe even LPs. In those days, there was no loudness competition, and
there were standard operating levels for cassette tape (thanks to
Dolby), so your home made cassettes probably sounded about the same
volume as commercial ones (if you even bought any). Or you were
comparing your cassettes with an LP or a CD, you realized that it was
on a different medium, played on a different player, and if you wanted
to hear it louder, you walked over and turned up the volume control.

Today in commercial music production, there's a push to make things
louder and you just can't accomplish that easily at home. Turn up the
volume when you're playing your home-made CDs. It's OK.

If you can't make the meters move to near full scale, then you have a
gain problem. Otherwise, you have a "loudness" problem, which you
really shouldn't consider a problem until you really get into it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike B wrote:
Last studio I have was 1/2 tape analog, so used to running everything as hot
as possible. I now use a hard dick recorder ( zoom mrs 1266 ) just for
putting down ideas at home. When I mix down, burn a cd, and listen on
various players, it sounds fine except that the gain is way low compared to
other cd's. I am recording strong signals, but cannot seem to get a grip on
this digital thing. Manual is very vague. Any ideas? Set me straight!

If you're comparing it to commercial CDs that are compressed to hell, it
doesn't sound anywhere near as loud because it's not compressed to hell.
Just turn the volume control up on playback. That's what it's for.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."