I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs. The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch connectors
on both ends? Does one of those transformers which change impedance from high
to low work so I can run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?


"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

"OldBluesman" wrote in message
...
I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs. The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the
rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch
connectors
on both ends?

No. It's an unbalanced setup, so you may pick up hum, but you won't lose
signal level.

Does one of those transformers which change impedance from high
to low work so I can run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?

You'd need two of them, one at each end, and you'll lose more sound quality
from them (unless they're quite expensive) than you will in the 50' cable.
Unless you get bad hum problems, don't worry.

Peace,
Paul

I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs. The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the
rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch
connectors
on both ends? Does one of those transformers which change impedance from
high
to low work so I can run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?

Use your ears. Just connect and listen. If the sound is OK, don't change it.

If it's humming, just use a low power amplifier (around 1 to 5W RMS,
preferably class A or AB, you can get good ICs for this if you want to
solder yourself) connected to the mixer output. The speaker connectors of
the low-power amp go to the long wire to the PA amplifier. At the inputs of
the PA solder two resistors of about 50 Ohm in parallel to the inputs. Now
you have a simple, high quality (well, depending on the low power amplifier
used...) low-impedance connection that you can run for a mile or so.

Don't use passive transformers, you'll lose more than you'll gain.

--
Mike Looijmans
MiLo Softwa http://www.milosoftware.com
CD Wave: http://www.cdwave.com

OldBluesman wrote:

I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and
monitor outputs.

Not TRS? Does this equipment have a make and model?

The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is
located at the rear of the club. Will I loose signal running a long
cable with 1/4inch connectors on both ends?

First off, losses for line-level signals due to the 1/4" connectors
themselves are negligible. You might have heard that there are appreciable
losses in 1/4" connectors for loudspeaker lines, but line-level signals like
these are an entirely different matter.

Any appreciable signal losses will be in the long cable, not the connectors.
Connectors generally don't have appreciable signal losses unless they are
dirty, corroded or broken.

It's the cable attached to the 1/4" connectors, and the fact that the 1/4"
connectors are not TRS and therefore can't possibly be balanced, that should
cause you concern.

TRS would be preferred if the equipment can exploit it.

You should notice the obvious similarity between TRS which is often
preferred, and the 1/4" connectors which you seem to have, and realize that
in this application, losses in the connectors themselves are negligible.

Does one of those
transformers which change impedance from high to low work so I can
run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?

As others have pointed out, transformers would be applied to this situation
to reduce any possible hum pickup. No hum, not much need for transformers.

OldBluesman wrote:
I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs.

Are they balanced?

The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch connectors
on both ends?

If it's not balanced, you will have noise issues and you won't be able to break
ground loops. If it's balanced, you won't have any problem at all.

Does one of those transformers which change impedance from high
to low work so I can run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?

Impedance, balancing, and the type of connector have nothing to do with
one another, really. (Except that you need three contacts for balanced
output). A transformer will help you balance an unbalanced line, but if you
have a balanced line already it's not worth bothering with.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

OldBluesman wrote:

I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and
monitor outputs. The power amp is located on stage and the mixer
is located at the rear of the club. Will I loose signal running
a long cable with 1/4inch connectors on both ends?


If it's not balanced, you will have noise issues and you won't be able to break
ground loops. If it's balanced, you won't have any problem at all.

He *might* get lucky and not have any hum.




Impedance, balancing, and the type of connector have nothing to do with
one another, really. (Except that you need three contacts for balanced
output).

We usually use three contacts for a balanced line, but if it's truly balanced and floating you can get away with two contacts in many cases.

OldBluesman wrote
I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs.

The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch
connectors
on both ends?

I once hooked up a keyboard to a mixer from about 50 feet with two regular TS
instrument cables spliced with a dual 1/4" female adapter I got from Radio
Shack for (I forget how much exactly) five or ten bucks. I was expecting a
bunch of noise from all the other cable runs it was passing across as we had a
good size stage setup, but to my surprise it was clean as a whistle.

"OldBluesman" wrote in message ...
I have a mixer that has only a 1/4inch connector on the main and monitor
outputs. The power amp is located on stage and the mixer is located at the rear
of the club. Will I loose signal running a long cable with 1/4inch connectors
on both ends? Does one of those transformers which change impedance from high
to low work so I can run an xlr on both ends for that distance (50 ft)?


"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman


This may run contrary to popular belief... but I had a small room situation similar
to this that had a host of problems resulting from the amps being close to the
stage, not visible and with no protection. (Bang-bang go the speakers).

The concensus is, the shorter the cable run from power to speaker, the better
off the end result. I decided to go against this concept and removed the returns
to the stage snake which fed the amps. I then moved the unbalanced amps
to the sound booth and ran 14 guage wire from the booth to the speakers.
(BTW, I never had 'hum' problems in either configuration, unbalanced).

I must assume that the snake was cheap wire - it had been in the wall for
some 4 years when I started working there over 17 years ago, and it is
still there to this day - because after moving the amps to the desk area,
I gained a *considerable* amount of volume and the speaker repair bills
(resulting from outside users failing to understand how underpowered
the little room was, and clipping the amps without knowing) went waaay
down.

I would rather trust a strong guage of wire over a longer distance than to
trust the little adapters. My run was about 60ft since I had to climb a wall
and then feed the flown speaker array.... sounds like a very similar situation
to yours, so you might just try keeping the amps with you.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

To all that responded.

This was the most informative and direct response that I've ever gotten on any
newsgroup I'm a part of. Thanks thanks!

Now I checked my specs and the outputs from the mixer are trs or balanced.




"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

OldBluesman wrote:
To all that responded.

This was the most informative and direct response that I've ever gotten on any
newsgroup I'm a part of. Thanks thanks!

Now I checked my specs and the outputs from the mixer are trs or balanced.

So make yourself up a bunch of TRS-to-XLR cables. You'll need them for
all kinds of stuff.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"OldBluesman" wrote in message ...
To all that responded.

This was the most informative and direct response that I've ever gotten on any
newsgroup I'm a part of. Thanks thanks!

Now I checked my specs and the outputs from the mixer are trs or balanced.


http://www.rane.com/note110.html ...and what Scott said. ;-)

DM