MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.

Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.


Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.


The higher ProAc ranges are VERY nice with the ribbon tweeters, though I
am quite happy with my Studio 125's, I actually prefer them to the lower
response series, I found them a bit "shouty".

You may also want to consider the Living Voice range (not the horns).

--
Nick

Joseph Oberlander commented

: MINe 109 wrote:
:
: Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
: floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
: music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
: frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.
:
: Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
: a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
: or move to full-range electrostatics.

You guys are getting off on a tangent here. The OP (and my virtual ears
pricked up, because I own exactly the same model) specifically mentioned Kef
104*ab*, not Kef 104 the much later reference model. Mine are marked "1972"
on the back of the bass drivers ... but I can't afford to upgrade *yet*.

Indeed, no-one has mentioned the later (or latest) Kef models as contenders
until now, I think. Surely they would be a suitable & obvious upgrade?

I've certainly liked the few later (Reference & Q series IIRC) ones I've
heard, and they still seem to take R&D work as seriously as ever.

RdM

Ross Matheson wrote:

Joseph Oberlander commented

: MINe 109 wrote:
:
: Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
: floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
: music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
: frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.
:
: Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
: a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
: or move to full-range electrostatics.

You guys are getting off on a tangent here. The OP (and my virtual ears
pricked up, because I own exactly the same model) specifically mentioned Kef
104*ab*, not Kef 104 the much later reference model. Mine are marked "1972"
on the back of the bass drivers ... but I can't afford to upgrade *yet*.

Indeed, no-one has mentioned the later (or latest) Kef models as contenders
until now, I think. Surely they would be a suitable & obvious upgrade?

Well... I thought he had the 104/6s. For $1200-$1500, he can find
mint pair with dual terminals and then get them re-foamed for
good measure. Few things will sound as good for the money.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:26:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.

Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.

I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
experience.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

In article , Newbie
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
thing.

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

Stephen wrote:


In article , Newbie
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
thing.

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen



Another option might be the Martin Logan Aeon i electrostatic hybrid, which is
only 10" wide and occupies less than a square foot of floor space. The Martin
Logan panels are extremely transparent (both visually and aurally) and they've
done an excellent job at blending the panels to their woofers, especially in
their most recent models.



Bruce J. Richman

Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Stephen wrote:



In article , Newbie
wrote:


Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

The 104s are very very good, so I'd presonally recondition them and
maybe add a sub. My guess is that they lack enough bass.

MINe 109 wrote:

: Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
: repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
: about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
: thing.

No, not realy dissatisfied, the condition would be better described as
"20 year itch". Just wondering if there are much better deals out
there now.

You have to appreciate that I can't do what one can in most Americans
cities: throw my speakers in the car and take them to a high-end dealer
for side-by-side comparison. That's a little difficult when you depend
on NYC subways and buses for getting around. Hence all this research.

When I bought these speakers I really wanted the Quads but my room
couldn't take them. It is ironic to find myself in the same situation
many years later.

In article ,
Newbie wrote:
You have to appreciate that I can't do what one can in most Americans
cities: throw my speakers in the car and take them to a high-end dealer
for side-by-side comparison.

If that's what they do, they're wrong. You should borrow speakers from
your dealer and check them at home. The room has a vast influence on the
final sound.

--
* What do they call a coffee break at the Lipton Tea Company? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

MINe 109 wrote:

: Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
: repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
: about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind
: of thing.

No, not realy dissatisfied, the condition would be better described as
"20 year itch". Just wondering if there are much better speaker
deals out there now.

You have to appreciate that I can't do what one can in most Americans
cities: throw my speakers in the car and take them to a high-end dealer
for side-by-side comparison. That's a little difficult when you depend
on NYC subways and buses for getting around. Hence all this research.
If I could identify 1-2 best candidates, I could take my speakers in a
cab or even better convince the dealer to loan me a pair for a few days
for in-home comparison.

The room is approx 15x20, there is a false ceiling at about 11', wood
floor with 9x12 rug in the middle , leather furniture furniture (big
couch, small couch, a chair, ottoman), coffee table, entertainment
rack, a few paintings on the wall.

That said I tend to keep my audio purchases for a long time, so nothing
can be over-selected for this particular room.

When I bought these speakers I really wanted the Quads but my room
couldn't take them. It is ironic to find myself in the same situation
many years later...

In article , Newbie
wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

: Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
: repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
: about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind
: of thing.

No, not realy dissatisfied, the condition would be better described as
"20 year itch". Just wondering if there are much better speaker
deals out there now.

You have to appreciate that I can't do what one can in most Americans
cities: throw my speakers in the car and take them to a high-end dealer
for side-by-side comparison. That's a little difficult when you depend
on NYC subways and buses for getting around. Hence all this research.
If I could identify 1-2 best candidates, I could take my speakers in a
cab or even better convince the dealer to loan me a pair for a few days
for in-home comparison.

The room is approx 15x20, there is a false ceiling at about 11', wood
floor with 9x12 rug in the middle , leather furniture furniture (big
couch, small couch, a chair, ottoman), coffee table, entertainment
rack, a few paintings on the wall.

I don't see any obvious problems. I built a system in a bad room (way
too long in a student apartment) and had the pleasure of moving to a
good room. In the old space, I did lots of upgrading to get everything
just a little better, but not to great overall effect. In the new, I
made room for the Quads and the other system now enhances my television.

That said I tend to keep my audio purchases for a long time, so nothing
can be over-selected for this particular room.

When I bought these speakers I really wanted the Quads but my room
couldn't take them. It is ironic to find myself in the same situation
many years later...

NYC? Hmm. Sorry to throw names around without direct experience, but
some classical types swear by Shahinian.

Stephen

In message , MINe
109 writes
In article , Newbie
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
thing.

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!
--
Chris Morriss

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!
--
Chris Morriss

And a Krell to drive them?


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

In message , Fleetie
writes
Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!
--
Chris Morriss

And a Krell to drive them?


Martin

Possibly!
It's odd, I used to have a pair of the small SMGb models, and I couldn't
drive these with my Arcam 8P. Now you may say, 'not surprisingly', but
my much larger MG2.5R panels were quite happy when driven by the 8P.
(Not to huge levels of course, but the SMGb weren't happy even at lower
levels.) The SMGb were OK with a homemade MOSFET o/p amp.
--
Chris Morriss

Fleetie wrote:


Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!
--
Chris Morriss

And a Krell to drive them?


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967
110890
Manchester, U.K.
http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk



Most speakers sound better if not placed adjacent to walls. This does *not*
mean they have to be approximately 4.5 to 5 feet (1.5 meters) out from the back
wall. I have several friends that run Magneplanar with good results when
ploaced no more than 2-3 feet from the back wall. Also, a few of them use tube
amplifiers (and not huge ones) with excellent results (e.g. a conrad johnson
Premier 11A at 70 watts/channel). Of course, the power requirements will alao
be dependent upon listening levels, types of music played, and the listening
room acoustics.



Bruce J. Richman

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:20:08 GMT, "Fleetie"
wrote:

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

Stephen

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!
--
Chris Morriss

And a Krell to drive them?

No, despite urban mythology, they're an easy load, but they do need
*lots* of power. One of the big Rotels or NADs is probably the ideal
partner.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article ,
Chris Morriss wrote:

In message , MINe
109 writes
In article , Newbie
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
thing.

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!

Nah, just angle them at 45 degrees to the back wall...

Okay, just kidding. It wouldn't be unusual to have a stand-mounted
speaker that far into the room. I do think there are advantages to
near-wall placement as often found in British speakers (like my tv
system Linn Kabers) or the Allisons mentioned earlier that I know by
reputation and a recent review in Absolute Sound.

Stephen

Stephen

Stephen wrote:


In article ,
Chris Morriss wrote:

In message , MINe
109 writes
In article , Newbie
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

: I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
: this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
: look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
: of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
: experience.

Hello Stewart. I appreciate your suggestions. However, I live a small
(expensive but tiny!) big-city apartment. The Quads are out of the
question! I suppose the speakers could be tall, but must have a small
footprint.

One general question I can't even articulate well goes like this: If
you have very good speakers of this age (my KEF's, or BC-1s, Rogers,
etc.), with no obvious breakdown, just old age, is it better to get
them "reconditioned", or has the speaker technology improved so much
that one should replace them?

Are you dissatisfied with the sound? There could be a simple fix by
repositioning them or using room treatments. Maybe you could tell us
about the room: hard floors, high ceilings, square footage, that kind of
thing.

Anyway, what are the best "sleek" speakers that don't need much floor
space?

The Magneplanar 1.6 are tall but only 19" wide and 2" deep.

But they need about 1.5 metres of space behind them!

Nah, just angle them at 45 degrees to the back wall...

Okay, just kidding. It wouldn't be unusual to have a stand-mounted
speaker that far into the room. I do think there are advantages to
near-wall placement as often found in British speakers (like my tv
system Linn Kabers) or the Allisons mentioned earlier that I know by
reputation and a recent review in Absolute Sound.

Stephen

Stephen




Allisons are, unfortunately, gasbag certified.



Bruce J. Richman