"paul packer" wrote in message
...
The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful things
that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to hold
their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.


I disagree.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.


I disagree.

I think you are probably wrong on this one. When troops go overseas they
are given instruction on the culture either before or after they get there.

They may not have been given specific instruction on torture methods, but if
you know some basic things about the culture, you can easily extrapolate
that info into ways to degrade.

Just being in the culture for a while one would pick up info about it that
could be used against the people.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
link.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.


I disagree.

I think you are probably wrong on this one. When troops go overseas they
are given instruction on the culture either before or after they get
there.

They may not have been given specific instruction on torture methods, but
if
you know some basic things about the culture, you can easily extrapolate
that info into ways to degrade.

Just being in the culture for a while one would pick up info about it that
could be used against the people.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
link.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.


I disagree.

I think you are probably wrong on this one. When troops go overseas they
are given instruction on the culture either before or after they get
there.

They may not have been given specific instruction on torture methods, but
if
you know some basic things about the culture, you can easily extrapolate
that info into ways to degrade.

Just being in the culture for a while one would pick up info about it that
could be used against the people.



I find that its no coincidence that a unit from
Allegheny County, Maryland is involved in this.
I know what a lot of people are like up there,
cause I have known a number of them, and spent
some time there. Re,eber, it was this shift,
and not the two other shifts, that had the problem.
I don't know what units they were from.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:21:15 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

I find that its no coincidence that a unit from
Allegheny County, Maryland is involved in this.
I know what a lot of people are like up there,
cause I have known a number of them, and spent
some time there. Re,eber, it was this shift,
and not the two other shifts, that had the problem.
I don't know what units they were from.

Maybe it was just that the Intelligence guys directing the torture
thought that soldiers from this county would be the most co-operative,
even enthusiastic. If so they were right.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:21:15 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

I find that its no coincidence that a unit from
Allegheny County, Maryland is involved in this.
I know what a lot of people are like up there,
cause I have known a number of them, and spent
some time there. Re,eber, it was this shift,
and not the two other shifts, that had the problem.
I don't know what units they were from.

Maybe it was just that the Intelligence guys directing the torture
thought that soldiers from this county would be the most co-operative,
even enthusiastic. If so they were right.


That could be it. It happened in Eastern Europe under the Nazi's
iin WWII. They picked abusive guards from a willing population

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
link.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
Art said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.


I disagree.

I think you are probably wrong on this one. When troops go overseas they
are given instruction on the culture either before or after they get
there.

They may not have been given specific instruction on torture methods, but
if
you know some basic things about the culture, you can easily extrapolate
that info into ways to degrade.

Just being in the culture for a while one would pick up info about it
that
could be used against the people.



I find that its no coincidence that a unit from
Allegheny County, Maryland is involved in this.
I know what a lot of people are like up there,
cause I have known a number of them, and spent
some time there. Re,eber, it was this shift,
and not the two other shifts, that had the problem.
I don't know what units they were from.

I'm sure being a from a jerkwater, backwoods idiot environment doesn't
breed angels of mercy.

"Clyde Slick" said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.

I disagree.

I didn't mean trained on torture, but instructed in specific Arab
culture and how to deal with Islam issues.

I also happen to think that what has happened in the Abu ghraib prison
was an exception.
Nevertheless, it *has* occurred and shouldn't be denied or ridiculed,
as some posters seem to do.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" said:

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

I'll bet they were *thoroughly* instructed.

I disagree.

I didn't mean trained on torture, but instructed in specific Arab
culture and how to deal with Islam issues.

I also happen to think that what has happened in the Abu ghraib prison
was an exception.
Nevertheless, it *has* occurred and shouldn't be denied or ridiculed,
as some posters seem to do.


Well, I am not sure about their training. This is a reserve or National
Guard unit, not regular Army, and I don't think they are extensively
trained,
nor trained in such sociological subtleties. They are weekend warriors, not
full time soldiers.

I also think the torture was an exception, I think it was not
suggested from high levels, and that is is not US policy.
I don't deny that there was abuse, and, if you feel that
I have been ridiculing it, my motivation was to put it in
perspective of the total picture of Islamist terrorism, by
which Abu Ghraib is but a mere speck of lint. Also,
I am disgusted by the complete lack of moral outrage
some people here have exhibited or expressed regarding
the terrorist acts of the Islamists. All I see is a bunch of
moral handwringing over America, which really, other
than Great Britain, is the only nation to step up in a major way.

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful things
that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to hold
their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never written.
this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the details
of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful
things
that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to
hold
their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never
written.
this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the
details
of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful
things
that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too
perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to
hold
their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never
written.
this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the
details
of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

And most likely had some training in the culture they were being sent to.
But no they were not specialists and I'm sure that even a brain dead asshole
like Lionel ( I used to love those trains) knows this.

Michael McKelvy wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
.. .

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too
perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.


And most likely had some training in the culture they were being sent to.
But no they were not specialists and I'm sure that even a brain dead asshole
like Lionel ( I used to love those trains) knows this.

There is a misunderstanding here.
I don't want to say that the Abu Ghraib jailors have been trained to
torture.
I am sure that US army is not full of saddists like you and Sackman.

When I am writing "specialists" I want to say that those soldiers have
been trained to manage and take care of prisonners surveillance. They
were belonging to unities who have been especially trained for this job.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
.. .

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too
perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures
being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes
you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within
it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between
a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.


And most likely had some training in the culture they were being sent
to.
But no they were not specialists and I'm sure that even a brain dead
asshole
like Lionel ( I used to love those trains) knows this.

There is a misunderstanding here.
I don't want to say that the Abu Ghraib jailors have been trained to
torture.
I am sure that US army is not full of saddists like you and Sackman.

When I am writing "specialists" I want to say that those soldiers have
been trained to manage and take care of prisonners surveillance. They
were belonging to unities who have been especially trained for this job.

Yes, trained to be jailers, in some minimal way, but, in the field, were
given
responsibilies more akin to intelligence. They were not
trained for that.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
. ..

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.


And most likely had some training in the culture they were being sent to.
But no they were not specialists and I'm sure that even a brain dead
asshole like Lionel ( I used to love those trains) knows this.

There is a misunderstanding here.
I don't want to say that the Abu Ghraib jailors have been trained to
torture.
I am sure that US army is not full of saddists like you and Sackman.

I'm sure France is not full of idiots like you.

When I am writing "specialists" I want to say that those soldiers have
been trained to manage and take care of prisonners surveillance. They were
belonging to unities who have been especially trained for this job.

There are more prisons than Abu Grahib and nothing appears to be going wrong
with them, so as we have said it was an isolated incident by a few whacked
out fools.

Michael McKelvy wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Michael McKelvy wrote:

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...


"Lionel" wrote in message
. ..


Clyde Slick wrote:



"paul packer" wrote in message
.. .


The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things


that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold


their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.


this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details


of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.


And most likely had some training in the culture they were being sent to.
But no they were not specialists and I'm sure that even a brain dead
asshole like Lionel ( I used to love those trains) knows this.

There is a misunderstanding here.
I don't want to say that the Abu Ghraib jailors have been trained to
torture.
I am sure that US army is not full of saddists like you and Sackman.


I'm sure France is not full of idiots like you.


When I am writing "specialists" I want to say that those soldiers have
been trained to manage and take care of prisonners surveillance. They were
belonging to unities who have been especially trained for this job.


There are more prisons than Abu Grahib and nothing appears to be going wrong
with them, so as we have said it was an isolated incident by a few whacked
out fools.

This is not what have reported US some US Superior Officers.
NB : this is an info. that you shouldn't find on FoxNews

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Do you mean that they haven't been trained ?

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Do you mean that they haven't been trained ?

To some degree, but there is no indication that they
were trained to walk prisoners around naked, on a leash.

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .


Clyde Slick wrote:



"paul packer" wrote in message
. ..


The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things


that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold


their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.


this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details


of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Do you mean that they haven't been trained ?


To some degree, but there is no indication that they
were trained to walk prisoners around naked, on a leash.

I never wrote that they have been trained to torture, this comes from
your insane imagination only.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .


Clyde Slick wrote:



"paul packer" wrote in message
. ..


The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things


that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too
perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold


their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures
being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes
you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within
it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.


this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details


of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between
a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Do you mean that they haven't been trained ?


To some degree, but there is no indication that they
were trained to walk prisoners around naked, on a leash.

I never wrote that they have been trained to torture, this comes from
your insane imagination only.

Excuse me, its always hard to figure out exactly what you mean.
You said trained, and left it at that.
I clarified the issue, just in case you meant trained in degradation.

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Like in the Moore's movie ?

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Like in the Moore's movie ?

I'm not going to bother to see it, at least not in a venue
where it puts money into his pocket.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
.. .

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Like in the Moore's movie ?

Try going to www.spinsanity.org and click on topics and you'll find there
are plenty of problems with anything done by Michael Moore. This is a very
objective web site that clears up falsehoods being perpetrated by both
sides. They take on Bush, Kerry, Daschle, Limbaugh, Robert Scheer and Noam
Chomsky. They don't play favorites.

Michael McKelvy wrote:


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
. ..

The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful

things

that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to

hold

their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never

written.

this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the

details

of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47


No they are not specialists
They are a part time guard unit from Cumberland, Maryland
They are a bunch of unworldly people from an underdeveloped,
economically depressed, underpopulated mountain area.

Like in the Moore's movie ?

Try going to www.spinsanity.org

Try going on http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ABORTION/Default.htm
in order to check why your mother hadn't the courage to take the right
decision. ;-)

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
The real authority here is the fact that what was done to the
prisoners accords so well with the most degrading and shameful things
that could possible have been done. In other words, it's too perfect
to be a coincidence. They wanted to break these men, and what was
worse, do so in a way that would prevent them ever being able to hold
their heads up in their own society ever again.

Tell me, in what culture is being walked around naked on a leash
considered a sign of honor?

That's abtuse. You know as well as I do that in certain cultures being
shamed and degraded in certain ways, even against your will, makes you
ineligible to re-enter that society. And what worse torture is there
than being excluded from your own culture, or being shunned within it,
for something others did to you?

The point is, that is abusive and degrading in ANY culture, and
that the yahoos who did it would not necessary be purposefully
debasing them because of the inherencies of Arab culture, nor
would it constitute any particular indication that the guards were
even aware of the detailed inherencies of Arab culture.

LOL, this argument is one of the most grotesque that you have never
written.
this obviously prove the contrary, they were perfectly aware of the
details
of the Arab culture.
They were specialists of the job they were doing...
Ask your friend McKelvy if a marine cannot make the difference between a
M-16 and a AKA-47

Certainly, an M-16 is a rifle that fire a 5.56mm round. An AKA-47 is not
anything I know of. An AK-47 is one of the best military weapons ever
designed and fires a 7.62 mm round and has an illegal bayonet.