http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1362

"xy" wrote in message
om...
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1362

I've seen people who used to record a lot at home (with tape) but have been
put off by digital. Not so much the sound as all the "setup". For instance
the difference between booting up a computer, loading softsynths, etc. vs.
just "turning on" a hardware synth and playing.

(xy)


http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1362

A Ghetto Blaster/4 track studio/amp modeling/ combo box/ Nice idea, I
hate the whole "Flash memory" direction all the new low end recorders are using
for memory, a $1 cassette tape is cheap enough and you don't need a computer to
archive your song sketches, you just put the tape away...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be recording...

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote in message
news:Bju7c.55695$1p.935502@attbi_s54...
"xy" wrote in message
om...
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1362

I've seen people who used to record a lot at home (with tape) but have
been
put off by digital. Not so much the sound as all the "setup". For instance
the difference between booting up a computer, loading softsynths, etc. vs.
just "turning on" a hardware synth and playing.

DaveDrummer wrote:
If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be recording...

I'm sorry, but I have better things to do with my time than fiddle with
computer systems. I'd rather be recording.

It's true, though, that cassettes are not exactly an ideal format, and they
have given analogue recording an undeservedly bad reputation in many quarters.
In fact, they are about the worst possible recording format I can think of.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be recording...

And I think that if you can't align a tape deck, you shouldn't even be
recording.

So there! Pfffttt!

Disclaimer: If you're using a tape deck that you can't align (like a cheap
cassette) then you shouldn't be worrying about why your recordings don't
sound so great.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

If you can't put on a rubber I don't think you should even be recording...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound Recording
www.xssound.com
"DaveDrummer" wrote in message
...
If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be
recording...

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote in message
news:Bju7c.55695$1p.935502@attbi_s54...
"xy" wrote in message
om...
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1362

I've seen people who used to record a lot at home (with tape) but have
been
put off by digital. Not so much the sound as all the "setup". For
instance
the difference between booting up a computer, loading softsynths, etc.
vs.
just "turning on" a hardware synth and playing.

DaveDrummer wrote:

If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be recording...

I don't think you have a clue about how direct is the old analog
paradigm compared to the modern computerized one. I have both right
here. Just consider not even having to look at a monitor screen, not
messing with a keyboard or mouse, being able to interact almost
continuously with your bandmates.

--
ha

"DaveDrummer" wrote in message
...
If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be
recording...


I happen to know you're just a kid so I'll overlook this statement. LOL
You're young and computers are all you've ever known, which is great. But
you have NO IDEA how much this technology gets in the way of creative flow
and making music.

I switched bak to my old 8track amd man I got the sweetest sound. Thanks guys
for reminding me of tape. That natural compression is what I miss with my
digital recorder. When it clips its a harsh clip.


"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

DaveDrummer wrote:

If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be recording...


Why?


Don

In article writes:

I switched bak to my old 8track amd man I got the sweetest sound. Thanks guys
for reminding me of tape.

I'm not a firm believer in "the sound of tape" correcting digital
recording, but one thing that working with tape does for you, until
you get really skilled at punching, bouncing, editing, and mixing is
that you pretty much hear the song as it's developing. You don't
record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you have 100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...


DaveDrummer wrote:

If you can't boot up a computer I dont think you should even be
recording...


Why?

Wow, imagine what great songs Mozart or the Beatles could have made if they
had computers!

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1080141146k@trad...

I'm not a firm believer in "the sound of tape" correcting digital
recording, but one thing that working with tape does for you, until
you get really skilled at punching, bouncing, editing, and mixing is
that you pretty much hear the song as it's developing. You don't
record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you have 100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.


I thank God I didn't learn in a "limitless" environment. I HAD to make
decisions because I had no more tracks!. If you don't have a clear vision or
you have trouble making decisions, recording is not for you.

Mike Rivers wrote:

sax50man writes:

I switched bak to my old 8track amd man I got the sweetest sound.
Thanks guys for reminding me of tape.

I'm not a firm believer in "the sound of tape" correcting digital
recording, but one thing that working with tape does for you, until
you get really skilled at punching, bouncing, editing, and mixing is
that you pretty much hear the song as it's developing. You don't
record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you have 100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.

Who is it that said analog recording was a great bull**** filster?

--
ha

You don't record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you have
100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.

This is not unlike what was said from 8 to 16 track to 24 track to locking
machines together back in the analog day.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

In article ,
EggHd wrote:
You don't record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you have
100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.

This is not unlike what was said from 8 to 16 track to 24 track to locking
machines together back in the analog day.

And it was just as true then as it is now.
--scott


"We can't be finished! We still have tracks left!"

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"EggHd" wrote in message
...
You don't record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces because you
have
100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.


One of my favorite quotes ever:

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de
Saint-Exupery

In article HbF8c.92813$_w.1243559@attbi_s53 writes:

One of my favorite quotes ever:

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de
Saint-Exupery

I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:

I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.

Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.

Carey Carlan wrote:

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:


I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.


Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.


Make that three.

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Carey Carlan wrote:

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:


I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.


Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never
seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.


Make that three.

And now four!

Steve King

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Carey Carlan wrote:

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:


I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.


Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never
seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.


Make that three.




I know this is going to date Me as an old fart, but I used to hear a jingle
in the late 40's on the radio in the New York area that went like this
"Kysor - Fraser yours at once direct from Madman Muntz". Anyone else in the
New York metro area remember that? Apparently he owned a Kysor-Fraser
dealership right after WWII in the 40's and early 50's.

"Geoley" wrote ...
I know this is going to date Me as an old fart, but I used
to hear a jingle in the late 40's on the radio in the New
York area that went like this "Kysor - Fraser yours at
once direct from Madman Muntz". Anyone else in the
New York metro area remember that? Apparently he
owned a Kysor-Fraser dealership right after WWII in
the 40's and early 50's.

I remember him in S.Calif in the early 60s with his 4-track
auto tape player (predecessor to 8-track). They used the
"Fidelipac" type cartridges where the pinch roller flipped
up from the player (as contrasted with the pinch roller built
into the 8-track cart. from Bill Lear, of LearJet fame.)

http://www.8trackheaven.com/muntz.html

Carey Carlan wrote:
(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:

I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.

Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never
seen or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.

Lots of people remember Muntz.

muntz has even become a verb!

Check this out:

http://www.national.com/rap/Story/0,1562,17,00.html

"Geoley" wrote in message servers.com...
"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Carey Carlan wrote:

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:


I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.


Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never
seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.


Make that three.




I know this is going to date Me as an old fart, but I used to hear a jingle
in the late 40's on the radio in the New York area that went like this
"Kysor - Fraser yours at once direct from Madman Muntz". Anyone else in the
New York metro area remember that? Apparently he owned a Kysor-Fraser
dealership right after WWII in the 40's and early 50's.


What exactly is Kysor - Fraser? Could that be Kyser or Keiser? One
of those was an automobile brand way back slightly before my time.
(and as long as we're talking 'bout that long ago might as well throw
in Kay Keyser just for confusion's sake.) I heard of Munz after the
fact, somewhere in the sixties or seventies, but never actually saw
any of his products. I'm in NC and I'm pretty sure his stuff was
mostly West coast.

unitron wrote:


What exactly is Kysor - Fraser?

Kaiser-Frasier

Could that be Kyser or Keiser?

One of those was an automobile brand way back slightly before my time.

An early-50's brand of car. Came out after the war when Americans were
buying anything with wheels because new cards weren't built during the war.

(and as long as we're talking 'bout that long ago might as well throw
in Kay Keyser just for confusion's sake.)

Confusion, yes. Similar time frame, though.

I heard of Munz after the
fact, somewhere in the sixties or seventies, but never actually saw
any of his products.

We had one of his 21 inchers. Must have had 11 tubes in it, not many more.
In the same years, an RCA would have at least twice as many tubes.

I'm in NC and I'm pretty sure his stuff was mostly West coast.

Detroit is the west coast? ;-)

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1080262327k@trad:

I thought it was Madman Muntz who said that - or at least did it to
make an inexpensive television set out of an expensive RCA design in
the 1950's.

Ah, you're the OTHER person who has ever heard of Muntz. I had never seen
or heard the name apart from my grandparents old TV set.



I remember him, (but I'm old)

Made those damn 4 track car players which were basicly NAB cart machines. They
were replaced by an even worse product the car 8 track.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

Actually it's "Kaiser-Frazier"

Kaiser was owned by Henry Kaiser, the same guy who owned Kaiser Aluminum. He
made one of his fortunes selling Victory Ships to the government during WW II.

"Mad Man" Earl Muntz was a fascinating guy. I got to meet and interview him
in the late 1970s, when he got into the big-screen TV business -- rebuilding
12" Sony Trinitrons inside big wooden cabinets, using a magnifying lens and
mirror to bounce the picture onto a 42"+ reflective screen.

He went into great detail about his color TV manufacturing business of the
late 1950s/early 1960s, and cheerfully admitted that his technicians just
bought a cheap RCA set and pulled out parts until the thing stopped working,
then they'd put that part back in. Eventually, they wound up with a pile of
parts and an RCA set that still sorta worked, and THAT'S what became the
model for their Muntz color set -- which I think was about $400, at a time
when most color sets were at least 50% more expensive.

He had popularized the 4-track Fidelipac cartridge audio tape system, in
which the capstan pinch roller stayed in the machine. He told me one of the
things that did in his tape company was The Beatles, ironically enough.
Sure, the albums sold big on 4-track, but they also got over a hundred
thousand returns, which basically bankrupted the company. Muntz told me that
while they were teetering on the edge financially, the factory was hit by a
"mysterious fire," and the insurance paid off the bills.

Muntz insisted that his 4-track tapes produced much better sound quality than
Bill Lear's 8-track cartridge, and I believe him. He equated 4-track carts
vs. 8-track carts as being similar to the "Beta vs. VHS" war of the late
1970s, and pointed out that the system that's best technically isn't always
the one that wins the war. Often it's the system that has the best MARKETING
is the one that wins, and that was the case with VHS and with 8-track.

--MFW

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
unitron wrote:


What exactly is Kysor - Fraser?

Kaiser-Frasier

Could that be Kyser or Keiser?

One of those was an automobile brand way back slightly before my time.

An early-50's brand of car. Came out after the war when Americans were
buying anything with wheels because new cards weren't built during the war.

(and as long as we're talking 'bout that long ago might as well throw
in Kay Keyser just for confusion's sake.)

Confusion, yes. Similar time frame, though.

I heard of Munz after the
fact, somewhere in the sixties or seventies, but never actually saw
any of his products.

We had one of his 21 inchers. Must have had 11 tubes in it, not many more.
In the same years, an RCA would have at least twice as many tubes.

I'm in NC and I'm pretty sure his stuff was mostly West coast.

Detroit is the west coast? ;-)


I meant the electronic stuff. And besides, Geoley only said that
Muntz had a New York area dealership, not that he was in the motor
city manufacturing the things.

By the(slightly offtopic)way, anybody else here grow up with a
Hallicrafters B&W set warming the living room?

In article writes:

"Mad Man" Earl Muntz was a fascinating guy.

He went into great detail about his color TV manufacturing business of the
late 1950s/early 1960s, and cheerfully admitted that his technicians just
bought a cheap RCA set and pulled out parts until the thing stopped working,
then they'd put that part back in. Eventually, they wound up with a pile of
parts and an RCA set that still sorta worked, and THAT'S what became the
model for their Muntz color set

The story goes back earlier than that. His first TV set was an RCA 630
black-and-white chassis that had all the "non-essential" parts removed
in the manner you describe. And that story was from before the
Internet, so it HAS to be true. g

Muntz insisted that his 4-track tapes produced much better sound quality than
Bill Lear's 8-track cartridge, and I believe him.

I wouldn't be surprised, if for no other reason than a wider track.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:05:32 EST
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:05:32 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.ash.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1054696


On 2004-03-25 (ScottDorsey) said:
EggHd wrote:
You don't record a bunch of "maybe we'll use this" pieces
because you have 100
tracks to work with, you decide when it's right and leave it alone.
This is not unlike what was said from 8 to 16 track to 24 track to
locking machines together back in the analog day.
And it was just as true then as it is now.
YES it is. When I learned we had one two or four tracks depending on
the machine.

YOu got a good balance with what you had and got the best sound you
could. OFten that meant tweaking the arrangement from many rehearsal
recordings until we knew what we wanted in the recording.

"We can't be finished! We still have tracks left!"
Hey if you couple that previous sentence with Loren's which says: "It
can't be too loud, some of the red lights aren't even on yet," then
you have modern recording philosophy and practice that'll fit on one
page.

remember those two rules and save yourself all them big bucks at FUll
SAil g.
I find with all the multitudes of tracks etc. that I avoid making
decisions on arrangements myself. I have to remind myself that often
less is more g.





Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--