I've been using a pair of TLM103s mostly for various drum room and drum
overhead tasks. Mostly use API, Avalon or Amek pres, or sometime some old
Neves too, etc. I am generally happy with this stuff. But occasionally I
hear people talking about how super hi-end mics can make a real difference.
I see that big studios use the big expensive vintage Neumanns etc, or C-12s,
etc... stuff like that. My feeling is that I am probably "maxed out" with
what I have, at least for the situation, and I am generally happy with the
results I get. But of course curiosity gets the best of me and I wonder if
say a pair of some "very expensive" large diaphragm Neumanns or whatever
would indeed "make a difference". I have not had a chance to A/B too many
other large D mics either so I am not really sure how much "better" it can
get, if at all, for my situation and tastes. Are there any NEW large
diaphragm mics available that would perhaps be an "improvement" over a pair
of TLM103s for drum room and/or overhead tasks? What about the more
expensive Neumanns like the 87 or 89, etc? Or, any other brands? Just
curious. Thanks.

I have heard C12's as overheads, during the recording of the drums on the
new Maralyn Manson album. Unsurprisingly they sounded fantastic.
I've always liked the KM84/184's for overheads, but they are small diaphragm
mics.

Pete.

"Freddie Jobson" wrote in message
et...
I've been using a pair of TLM103s mostly for various drum room and drum
overhead tasks. Mostly use API, Avalon or Amek pres, or sometime some old
Neves too, etc. I am generally happy with this stuff. But occasionally I
hear people talking about how super hi-end mics can make a real
difference.
I see that big studios use the big expensive vintage Neumanns etc, or
C-12s,
etc... stuff like that. My feeling is that I am probably "maxed out" with
what I have, at least for the situation, and I am generally happy with the
results I get. But of course curiosity gets the best of me and I wonder
if
say a pair of some "very expensive" large diaphragm Neumanns or whatever
would indeed "make a difference". I have not had a chance to A/B too many
other large D mics either so I am not really sure how much "better" it can
get, if at all, for my situation and tastes. Are there any NEW large
diaphragm mics available that would perhaps be an "improvement" over a
pair
of TLM103s for drum room and/or overhead tasks? What about the more
expensive Neumanns like the 87 or 89, etc? Or, any other brands? Just
curious. Thanks.

In article ,
Peter Hewitt-Dutton wrote:
I've always liked the KM84/184's for overheads, but they are small diaphragm
mics.

I'll agree, and small capsule mikes generally have much more accurate
imaging and off axis response as well as a flatter on axis response.
I guess it depends on what you're trying to do, but for me, it seems
easier to start with a sound that's close to the good sound I was
hearing in the room and try to make it better. A large capsule mike
will have a beamy and exaggerated HF response, and as an overhead or
room mike, it will make the stuff it's directly pointed at sound
brighter and the stuff that's off axis sound duller. Maybe that's
what you want, but maybe not. Over a good sounding kit, I'd rather
have a more even presentation.

It's probably a matter of preference, but for me, a KM-84 is _the_
mike over drums. I really like what they do to cymbals, and I'm
generally not happy with the additional brightness that many large
capsule mikes add.

But, experiment for yourself and see what fits in with the way you
hear things and the way you like to mix. Some folks track bright and
roll off in the mix, making a beamy mike work out well. Some folks
would rather track duller and add EQ to bring out the HF.

Another great candidate for overheads is a quality ribbon mike (like
the Beyer 130 or 160, a Royer or the Coles 4038). You probably want
to add some HF boost when mixing overheads done with ribbons, but
maybe not.

Also look out for a great variety of small capsule condensers,
especially those with tube electronics. The AKG CK28 capsule is
pretty darn nice over drums and percussion. You can find it on the
AKG C28 and most C60 mikes. Also, it seems that Altec licensed the
capsule design and sold them as the M30 mike, which shipped with the
525A power supply, 175A base and 29A capsule. These are (used to be?)
pretty inexpensive and a lot of fun over percussion.


Happy hunting,

Monte McGuire

"Monte P McGuire" wrote in message
...
It's probably a matter of preference, but for me, a KM-84 is _the_
mike over drums. I really like what they do to cymbals, and I'm
generally not happy with the additional brightness that many large
capsule mikes add.

I'd have to agree. Of course, since I do a lot of jazz recordings, maybe
I'm overlooking something that might be desired on other genres, but even
southern boogie and such seem to have benefitted from using 184s or 4041s on
overheads (84s are a little harder to find). In fact, even with 184s it
seems that I can bring up the pres and reach down to the kit a little better
without what's coming from the cymbals becoming unflattering. Specific
positioning is a key, though.

Good ideas on the AKGs, too. And although I can't see how it's done, I've
heard a lot of good kit recording with 414s on overheads, but I'm not even
sure which model.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

Good ideas on the AKGs, too. And although I can't see how it's done, I've
heard a lot of good kit recording with 414s on overheads, but I'm not even
sure which model.

I have a pair of AKG C414 B-ULS's as overheads on my kit. They work
very well and supply the bulk of the kit sound in the mix. I only need
to add a small amount from the individual snare/kick/tom mics to get a
really good sound from my kit.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
I have a pair of AKG C414 B-ULS's as overheads on my kit. They work
very well and supply the bulk of the kit sound in the mix. I only need
to add a small amount from the individual snare/kick/tom mics to get a
really good sound from my kit.

I've just never actually used any that didn't sound overly bright, and it
seems that AKG has somewhat kept up with that "bright" sound on all their
subsequent mics. Seems to me that AKG, other than the older line, does much
better on dynamics, which I'm probably going to get yelled at for saying. I
just haven't seen anything, including the 414s, that comes close to the
older AKG sound. Now don't get me wrong. 441s on piano and a number of
other instruments are just fine, as is the semi-ubiquitous 421. I just
sometimes wonder where the hell the real AKG went.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...

Seems to me that AKG, other than the older line, does much
better on dynamics, which I'm probably going to get yelled at for saying.
I
just haven't seen anything, including the 414s, that comes close to the
older AKG sound. Now don't get me wrong. 441s on piano and a number of
other instruments are just fine, as is the semi-ubiquitous 421. I just
sometimes wonder where the hell the real AKG went.

Um, Roger, the 441 and 421 are Sennheisers, not AKGs.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

Damn, did I say that? Geez, guess I don't know **** from shinola.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Hal Laurent" wrote in message
...

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...

Seems to me that AKG, other than the older line, does much
better on dynamics, which I'm probably going to get yelled at for
saying.
I
just haven't seen anything, including the 414s, that comes close to the
older AKG sound. Now don't get me wrong. 441s on piano and a number of
other instruments are just fine, as is the semi-ubiquitous 421. I just
sometimes wonder where the hell the real AKG went.

Um, Roger, the 441 and 421 are Sennheisers, not AKGs.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

Freddie,

I would consider the Soundelux U195 at a minimum to take a significant
step up. Of course it's all subjective, but to get what is "better"
significantly from a newer Neumann, you would have to go with
something like the more expensive tube M149. The U195 can provide a
huge 'character' sound that comes off as very natural, and it's only a
little more than a TLM103. Hope this helps.

Nathan Eldred
http://www.atlasproaudio.com


"Freddie Jobson" wrote in message . net...
I've been using a pair of TLM103s mostly for various drum room and drum
overhead tasks. Mostly use API, Avalon or Amek pres, or sometime some old
Neves too, etc. I am generally happy with this stuff. But occasionally I
hear people talking about how super hi-end mics can make a real difference.
I see that big studios use the big expensive vintage Neumanns etc, or C-12s,
etc... stuff like that. My feeling is that I am probably "maxed out" with
what I have, at least for the situation, and I am generally happy with the
results I get. But of course curiosity gets the best of me and I wonder if
say a pair of some "very expensive" large diaphragm Neumanns or whatever
would indeed "make a difference". I have not had a chance to A/B too many
other large D mics either so I am not really sure how much "better" it can
get, if at all, for my situation and tastes. Are there any NEW large
diaphragm mics available that would perhaps be an "improvement" over a pair
of TLM103s for drum room and/or overhead tasks? What about the more
expensive Neumanns like the 87 or 89, etc? Or, any other brands? Just
curious. Thanks.

I am currently hooked on using my pair of BLUE Dragonfly mics for drum
overheads. I have had great success through the Manly dual mono mic
pre's but I also ru around with my
Langevin DVC and have used it with the dragonfly mics for drum
overheads and also was very pleased.
I actually bought the Dragonfly mics with other instruments in mind
but ended up
doing a drum overhead mic shootout at my former studio and myself, the
session drummer, and a
fellow engineer friend were all stunned at how much more we liked the
dragonfly over the tlm103 for drum overheads. I thought maybe it was
just that room or that kit but I've used them enough now that it's my
current goto drum overhead mic.

Find a place to rent em or buy them with a return option. I doubt
you'll send them back though.

chris
wavetrap


"Freddie Jobson" wrote in message . net...
I've been using a pair of TLM103s mostly for various drum room and drum
overhead tasks. Mostly use API, Avalon or Amek pres, or sometime some old
Neves too, etc. I am generally happy with this stuff. But occasionally I
hear people talking about how super hi-end mics can make a real difference.
I see that big studios use the big expensive vintage Neumanns etc, or C-12s,
etc... stuff like that. My feeling is that I am probably "maxed out" with
what I have, at least for the situation, and I am generally happy with the
results I get. But of course curiosity gets the best of me and I wonder if
say a pair of some "very expensive" large diaphragm Neumanns or whatever
would indeed "make a difference". I have not had a chance to A/B too many
other large D mics either so I am not really sure how much "better" it can
get, if at all, for my situation and tastes. Are there any NEW large
diaphragm mics available that would perhaps be an "improvement" over a pair
of TLM103s for drum room and/or overhead tasks? What about the more
expensive Neumanns like the 87 or 89, etc? Or, any other brands? Just
curious. Thanks.