Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

In any case, I'd like to find a plug in that will let me automate the
speed of playback as the file goes along. I'm using Digital Performer,
but I've also got Pro Tools free and Peak, if you all know of plug-ins
that will work with them.

(The files are too big to be loaded into a sampler to do this.)

I've downloaded a demo of Pitch 'n' Time (which works in Pro Tools)
but the plug in is actually too tall to fit on my screen (!) so I
can't even test it out.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Greg Thomas

Change your screen resolution... P 'n T in graphical mode will do what you
want.. but your better choice would have been to stripe the reels of tape
and resolve them to black burst for the transfer to maintain a constant
speed.

Rail
------------------------------------------------------------
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://home.earthlink.net/~railro


"Greg Thomas" wrote in message
om...
Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

In any case, I'd like to find a plug in that will let me automate the
speed of playback as the file goes along. I'm using Digital Performer,
but I've also got Pro Tools free and Peak, if you all know of plug-ins
that will work with them.

(The files are too big to be loaded into a sampler to do this.)

I've downloaded a demo of Pitch 'n' Time (which works in Pro Tools)
but the plug in is actually too tall to fit on my screen (!) so I
can't even test it out.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Greg Thomas

Greg Thomas wrote:
Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

When did you last change the pinch roller on your playback machine?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Greg Thomas wrote:
Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

When did you last change the pinch roller on your playback machine?
--scott

I don't think the problem was with the playback machine. It WAS an
ancient machine that I rented, but other tapes played on the same
machine (before and after) played fine. I think the problem was with
the recording machine or the poor quality of certain tapes. The tapes
are more than 30 years old and they are 1/4"

In any case, since I am much more of a novice in old-school
engineering than in DAW software, I figured it would be easier for me
to struggle with the computer than with the tapes.

Thanks both for the comments. I can't adjust the screen resolution any
further for Pitch 'N' Time, but maybe I'll try to run it on another
machine.

--greg

In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

Greg Thomas wrote:
Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

When did you last change the pinch roller on your playback machine?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."




If the playback machine is fine maybe the tape needs to be baked?




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

Greg Thomas wrote:

I don't think the problem was with the playback machine. It WAS an
ancient machine that I rented, but other tapes played on the same
machine (before and after) played fine. I think the problem was with
the recording machine or the poor quality of certain tapes. The tapes
are more than 30 years old and they are 1/4"

If the playback machine is good, and the tape variation is CONSTANT,
it should be no problem to just adjust the sample rate on the file in
order to adjust the playback speed. Then you can rate convert back to
44.1 (although you should be careful because a lot of SRC systems sound
bad when you are converting between rates that have only small differences
between them).

But if it's an actual tape machine problem, I bet the variation is not
constant. You'll know it when you get the pitch right on one place and
it's not right on another. And in that case, the Plangent Technologies
folks might be the only salvation.

Thanks both for the comments. I can't adjust the screen resolution any
further for Pitch 'N' Time, but maybe I'll try to run it on another
machine.

The easy way might be to use a playback machine with varispeed.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

david wrote:

If the playback machine is fine maybe the tape needs to be baked?

When that happens, it's usually very obvious what is going on from
the squeaking and groaning, and the white gunk all over everything.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Yeah, I don't know from baking.

But now, explain to me what you meant, Scott, about changing the
sample rate. The tapes are short, each about 10 minutes long. They
start out about at the right speed (3 3/4 IPS) but then gradually,
pretty much constantly slow down such that you'd have to change the
playback machine to 2x as fast (about 7 1/2 IPS) to get them to sound
right.

Yes, I could have done it manually with a pitch control knob on the
playback machine, but gradually changing the pitch over 10
minutes--and getting it right--would not have happened. There's got to
be a digital solution.

At the moment, I've been using the specral effects on Digital
Performer to change the speed (and pitch) for each 10-second snipit of
sound. That is, snipit 1 is at 1.1x speed; snipit 2 is at 1.2x speed,
etc. It's incredibly tedious. And of course, it's probably not quite
arithmetic but exponential--a curve that gets more and more slow as
you go along. I've just been doing by ear, matching pitches.

What I'd love to be able to do is draw an automation line across the
file and have it gradually speed up the playback from the beginning to
the end of the file.

If there's a way to do this by changing the sample rate, I'll try it.
I don't think DP would be able to do that, but I've got ProTools and
Peak, if you think either of those would work... (Probably Peak?)

--greg

Greg Thomas wrote:
Yeah, I don't know from baking.

Tape that has a certain sticky shed problem will squeal and not play at
constant speed. Baking fixes this problem temporarily. It occurs on
some backcoated mastering tapes of the seventies and eighties.

But now, explain to me what you meant, Scott, about changing the
sample rate. The tapes are short, each about 10 minutes long. They
start out about at the right speed (3 3/4 IPS) but then gradually,
pretty much constantly slow down such that you'd have to change the
playback machine to 2x as fast (about 7 1/2 IPS) to get them to sound
right.

Then it isn't a constant shift. If you had a tape that was recorded
at twice normal speed, you could alter the sample rate field on the file
so that it would play at half normal speed. But if the speed changes
as you go down the tape steadily, this will not work.

By any chance were these recorded on 3" reels? Perhaps on a Japanese
recorder that did not have a capstan but drove the reels at constant speed?

Yes, I could have done it manually with a pitch control knob on the
playback machine, but gradually changing the pitch over 10
minutes--and getting it right--would not have happened. There's got to
be a digital solution.

If it was recorded on a constant-rotation reel machine, you cannot play
it back on a normal recorder. I have a special box around here for the
ATR-100 that will play those things, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Don't mess with Pitch'n Time it will only distort the phase of your
mix (adds some really weird reverberation to the sound).

You need a variable sample rate conversion tool, not a pitch shifter,
as the change in speed was caused by variations in the playback speed.

I don't know of one, though.

--th

(Greg Thomas) wrote
I've downloaded a demo of Pitch 'n' Time (which works in Pro Tools)
but the plug in is actually too tall to fit on my screen (!) so I
can't even test it out.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Greg Thomas

(Greg Thomas) wrote in message . com...

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Greg Thomas


Izotope's Vinyl plug-in has a "slow down" feature that sounds like a
record player stopping while playing. Quite good actually. It's free
from the izotope site (www.izotope.com).

If it doesn't do a speed up, you can reverse the file front to back
and do the slow down.

I'm not sure how much control it gives you, but it's worth a try, sice
it's free.

Mike Putrino

In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

david wrote:

If the playback machine is fine maybe the tape needs to be baked?

When that happens, it's usually very obvious what is going on from
the squeaking and groaning, and the white gunk all over everything.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."



I've run into this with tapes that were likely on the edge of needing
baking. Perhaps it was how they'd been stored. They would playback the
first 2/3's of the reel fine and then very gradually start to slow
down. There was nothing obvious or white gunk.

Once the tapes were baked the playback back fine. Was Ampex 456.



David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

"Greg Thomas" wrote

At the moment, I've been using the specral effects on Digital
Performer to change the speed (and pitch) for each 10-second snipit of
sound. That is, snipit 1 is at 1.1x speed; snipit 2 is at 1.2x speed,
etc. It's incredibly tedious. And of course, it's probably not quite
arithmetic but exponential--a curve that gets more and more slow as
you go along. I've just been doing by ear, matching pitches.

What I'd love to be able to do is draw an automation line across the
file and have it gradually speed up the playback from the beginning to
the end of the file.

The easiest way to obtain a linear increase in pitch is probably by using a
pitch bend effect, such as you would find in SoundForge and many other
digital audio editing programs. However, even if the decrease is linear,
the amount of correction required is probably so substantial that you will
never obtain decent results.

SoundForge uses an envelope which represents the portion of the waveform you
have selected. You can preview the results and fine tune them by adding
more points to the envelope. This can be time consuming and will more often
than not provide less than desirable results.

Treat the source of the problem, if at all possible, rather than the
symptoms and you will get much better results.

W

"Greg Thomas" wrote in message
om
Hi there. I just transferred a bunch of reel to reel tapes to my DAW
and I now need to fine-tune the speed at which the sound files play
back.

The catch is that the tape speed was not constant. The tapes actually
slowed down as they were played (and recorded into my DAW)--it may
have been that they were stretching or something, or it may have been
that they were simply recorded on a faulty machine.

In any case, I'd like to find a plug in that will let me automate the
speed of playback as the file goes along. I'm using Digital Performer,
but I've also got Pro Tools free and Peak, if you all know of plug-ins
that will work with them.

(The files are too big to be loaded into a sampler to do this.)

I've downloaded a demo of Pitch 'n' Time (which works in Pro Tools)
but the plug in is actually too tall to fit on my screen (!) so I
can't even test it out.

(1) Determine what the actual speed shift was over the recording

(2) Identify regions of the recording where the speed shift stays within
0.5%

(3) Shift each region the appropriate amount using standard tools such as
those in Adobe Acrobat.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


Correction:

(3) Shift each region the appropriate amount using standard tools
such as those in Adobe Audition.