[Trevor]

On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end, none of
the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)
Some speakers don't really need a sub, others definitely do.

[Neil[_9_]]

On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end, none
of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

--
best regards,

Neil

[Trevor]

On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end, none
of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on headphones?
Must be impossible in your universe surely?

[Neil[_9_]]

On 2/20/2021 12:05 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end,
none of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on headphones?
Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever? Though I won't speak for all, MY head is not
hollow, ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing waves
and their anomalies. The same can be said for an-echoic chambers, which
is why I drew that analogy to headphones.

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,
that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.

--
best regards,

Neil

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:41:14 -0500, Neil
wrote:

On 2/20/2021 12:05 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end,
none of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on headphones?
Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever? Though I won't speak for all, MY head is not
hollow, ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing waves
and their anomalies. The same can be said for an-echoic chambers, which
is why I drew that analogy to headphones.

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,
that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.

The side of your head and the shell of the headphones form two
reflective surfaces. That is why they put acoustic damping material in
there.

d

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Neil[_9_]]

On 2/20/2021 2:36 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:41:14 -0500, Neil
wrote:

On 2/20/2021 12:05 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end,
none of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on headphones?
Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever? Though I won't speak for all, MY head is not
hollow, ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing waves
and their anomalies. The same can be said for an-echoic chambers, which
is why I drew that analogy to headphones.

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,
that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.

The side of your head and the shell of the headphones form two
reflective surfaces. That is why they put acoustic damping material in
there.

d

The _acoustic damping_ makes the headphone shell surface non-reflective.
The side of one's head is both absorptive and not flat, so it is also
non-reflective. There are anomalies, but they are small in relation to
the headphone's non-linear response.

--
best regards,

Neil

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:09:40 -0500, Neil
wrote:

The _acoustic damping_ makes the headphone shell surface non-reflective.
The side of one's head is both absorptive and not flat, so it is also
non-reflective. There are anomalies, but they are small in relation to
the headphone's non-linear response.

The side of the head is actually very reflective. And you are going to
have to explain this non-linear response. I've never seen it.

d

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[[email protected]]

Neil is a fool wrote:
=================

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on headphones?
Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever?

** In fact - it is very apt.

Though I won't speak for all, MY head is not
hollow,

** I dispute that. Your head is quite empty.

ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing waves


If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,

** No the fool shifts the context by re-defining the question.
I was waiting for that move.

that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.

** More complex physics is involved than just "standing waves".
Which the fool has got wrong anyhow.

....... Phil

[Trevor]

On 21/02/2021 3:41 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/20/2021 12:05 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end,
none of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try to
play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on
headphones? Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever? Though I won't speak for all, MY head is not
hollow, ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing waves
and their anomalies. The same can be said for an-echoic chambers, which
is why I drew that analogy to headphones.

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,
that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.


You seem to be confused. There is nothing in physics that says you cant
create a room without significant standing waves. And it is only your
opinion that no room can possibly be adequate for most people to enjoy
music with proper bass response, even if you cant.

[[email protected]]

Trevor wrote:
============

On 21/02/2021 3:41 am, Neil wrote:

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a recording,
that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on elementary physics.

You seem to be confused.

** Or much worse.


There is nothing in physics that says you cant
create a room without significant standing waves.

** Or arrange multiple speakers for that same result.

And it is only your
opinion that no room can possibly be adequate for most people to enjoy
music with proper bass response, even if you cant.

** Neil is like the blind man who meets an elephant for the first time.
He walks up and grabs the elephant's tail.

Then exclaims aloud: " Ah, an elephant - is just like a snake ! "


...... Phil

[Neil[_9_]]

On 2/21/2021 4:12 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 21/02/2021 3:41 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/20/2021 12:05 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 18/02/2021 3:32 am, Neil wrote:
On 2/16/2021 11:05 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 15/02/2021 10:27 pm, Neil wrote
IMO, those interested in subwoofers are looking for a visceral
experience rather than an accurate reproduction, so to that end,
none of the variables really matter.

Yes that would be an opinion only. I always laugh when people try
to play pipe organ music on their LS3A's for example. :-)


Unless your playback room is the size of the cathedral, you're just
going for a visceral response with a sub-woofer.

That would be your opinion too of course. Fortunately the biggest
advantage of a cathedral is the reverberation time, and can be recorded.
I wonder whether you have ever heard anything below 1kHz on
headphones? Must be impossible in your universe surely?


I wonder if you realize that your comment about headphone frequency
makes no sense whatsoever? Though I won't speak for all, MY head is
not hollow, ergo there are no reflective surfaces to create standing
waves and their anomalies. The same can be said for an-echoic
chambers, which is why I drew that analogy to headphones.

If you think subwoofers allow for accurate reproduction of a
recording, that's fine, but it's your opinion, not facts based on
elementary physics.


You seem to be confused. There is nothing in physics that says you cant
create a room without significant standing waves. And it is only your
opinion that no room can possibly be adequate for most people to enjoy
music with proper bass response, even if you cant.


Only you have made claims that one can't create a room without
"significant standing waves". My statement about an-echoic chambers
being the epitome of such rooms says nothing about creating a good
listening environment. But, doing so requires one to calculate the
position of those standing waves.

All of my comments have to do with the nature of subwoofers, that
originated as a compromise for speakers without the dynamic range to
produce the LF that they provide. The many issues that come along with
them range from lumpy crossover to their centralized location which
negates any possibility of accurately positioned sound (many points
already made by some others in this discussion).

My comments have nothing whatsoever to do with the inability to produce
good bass responses either in the speakers themselves or the room. In
fact, I've enjoyed a very good living in part from designing such
speakers and creating good listening experiences in some very
challenging environments, such as pressurized domes.

And, doing either of those involves elementary physics.

Carry on, if you must.

--
best regards,

Neil

[geoff]

On 22/02/2021 3:26 am, Neil wrote:


Only you have made claims that one can't create a room without
"significant standing waves". My statement about an-echoic chambers
being the epitome of such rooms says nothing about creating a good
listening environment. But, doing so requires one to calculate the
position of those standing waves.

I feel the need to score a point here. Anechoic is one word an is not
hyphenated, despite what Thunderbird's spell-checker might think.

geoff