[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 18:31:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:


Nope. Didn't understand a word of that.



** Really ??

So " I squared R " has no meaning in your world ?

The resistive losses that increase a speaker's mid band,
resistive impedance beyond the DC ohms value are also mysterious
to you ?

A multiplying power meter, using analogue multiplier ICs,
is also a mystery ?

Where have you been hiding Don.

Under a rock?



I squared R has plenty of meaning. Unfortunately a speaker is not an
R. It's an X.


** However, the copper voice coil IS a simple resistance hence I squared R applies. You did not read my post.


Your measurement method, applied to a pure capacitor, would
apparently yield a power level.



** Not at all, an ideal capacitor has a resistance of zero.

Try reading my post, it is very clear.



.... Phil

What has the resistance of the voice coil got to do with this? It is a
parasitic that produces nothing but heat. It is the resistive vector
of the reactive component that is of interest here.

And capacitances have infinite, not zero resistance. However, the
capacitive reactance would still cause current to flow. If you take
the RMS of that current and the driving voltage you get a figure that
looks like a power but isn't.

d

[[email protected]]

Don Pearce wrote:



What has the resistance of the voice coil got to do with this? It is a
parasitic that produces nothing but heat. It is the resistive vector
of the reactive component that is of interest here.



** The topic is measuring *power dissipation* so resistance is everything.

The power dissipation in a loudspeaker is approximately 85% in the voice coil with the remaining 15% in the suspension, eddy currents and radiated sound.


And capacitances have infinite, not zero resistance.


** FFS ideal caps have zero *series* resistance.


However, the
capacitive reactance would still cause current to flow.


** But does not dissipate heat, so no power.


If you take
the RMS of that current and the driving voltage you get a figure that
looks like a power but isn't.


** FYI readers:

Don has now gone full circle, back to his original nonsense assertion.

Don has made no attempt to answer anything in my posts, he is like that wind-up toy that never stops.

Game over.



..... Phil

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 23:31:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



What has the resistance of the voice coil got to do with this? It is a
parasitic that produces nothing but heat. It is the resistive vector
of the reactive component that is of interest here.



** The topic is measuring *power dissipation* so resistance is everything.

The power dissipation in a loudspeaker is approximately 85% in the voice coil with the remaining 15% in the suspension, eddy currents and radiated sound.

This is starting to get quite surreal. The current that flows depends
on the impedance, not the resistance. At some frequencies the
impedance is higher, resulting in less current. At others it is lower,
making more current. At the resonant peaks the resistance (not
reactance) of an 8 ohm speaker can approach 50m ohms. Between
resonances at is probably down around 4 ohms.

Take a look at one of my measurements of a speaker - a Mission 774.
There are two plots. One is scalar impedance, and the other is the
full picture on the complex plane. If you can tell me what resistance
I am supposed to multiply the current by on a broadband signal I will
give up.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/mission_imp.png
http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/Mission_complex.png

d

[[email protected]]

Don Pearce Bull**** Artist wrote:




What has the resistance of the voice coil got to do with this? It is a
parasitic that produces nothing but heat. It is the resistive vector
of the reactive component that is of interest here.



** The topic is measuring *power dissipation* so resistance is everything.

The power dissipation in a loudspeaker is approximately 85% in
the voice coil with the remaining 15% in the suspension, eddy
currents and radiated sound.


This is starting to get quite surreal.



** FFS sake Don, you are making an utter ASS of yourself.

Hee - haw.....


The current that flows depends
on the impedance, not the resistance. At some frequencies the
impedance is higher, resulting in less current. At others it is lower,
making more current. At the resonant peaks the resistance (not
reactance) of an 8 ohm speaker can approach 50m ohms. Between
resonances at is probably down around 4 ohms.


** The current flow is as read on true RMSs, wide band, current meter.


Take a look at one of my measurements of a speaker - a Mission 774.
There are two plots. One is scalar impedance, and the other is the
full picture on the complex plane. If you can tell me what resistance
I am supposed to multiply the current by on a broadband signal I will
give up.


** I have described just that, in detail, here, several times.

Don has NOT answered any of my points, he ignores them and posts drivel just to keep to argument going.

A old and very worn debating cheat from a congenital cheat.

FYI to all readers:

There is no fool like an old fool and Don is a DAMN FOOL.




..... Phil

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 01:48:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Don Pearce Bull**** Artist wrote:




What has the resistance of the voice coil got to do with this? It is a
parasitic that produces nothing but heat. It is the resistive vector
of the reactive component that is of interest here.



** The topic is measuring *power dissipation* so resistance is everything.

The power dissipation in a loudspeaker is approximately 85% in
the voice coil with the remaining 15% in the suspension, eddy
currents and radiated sound.


This is starting to get quite surreal.



** FFS sake Don, you are making an utter ASS of yourself.

Hee - haw.....


The current that flows depends
on the impedance, not the resistance. At some frequencies the
impedance is higher, resulting in less current. At others it is lower,
making more current. At the resonant peaks the resistance (not
reactance) of an 8 ohm speaker can approach 50m ohms. Between
resonances at is probably down around 4 ohms.


** The current flow is as read on true RMSs, wide band, current meter.


Take a look at one of my measurements of a speaker - a Mission 774.
There are two plots. One is scalar impedance, and the other is the
full picture on the complex plane. If you can tell me what resistance
I am supposed to multiply the current by on a broadband signal I will
give up.


** I have described just that, in detail, here, several times.

Don has NOT answered any of my points, he ignores them and posts drivel just to keep to argument going.

A old and very worn debating cheat from a congenital cheat.

FYI to all readers:

There is no fool like an old fool and Don is a DAMN FOOL.



OK, you aren't prepared to deal with reality. You reach your limit of
electronics ability at DC measurements, and beyond that, into real and
imaginary axis impedance you can't function. I'm not bothering to
explain any further because you won't get it. And of course now your
standard ad hominem has started we know what comes next. What is in
store for me? Is it cancer, or should I just FOAD because I am
autistic, ASD?

d

[[email protected]]

Don Pearce = lying, pommy ****.


( Snip pile of malicious ad hominem garbage )


** FYI readers,

Don has gone full circle and straight up his own arse.

Don has completely failed comprehend my simple point and refuses to answer it.

Game 100 % over.

It is quite impossible to argue with a lying, senile pommy pig.





..... Phil

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/27/2019 2:31 AM, wrote:

** The topic is measuring*power dissipation* so resistance is everything.

Oh, so we've been arguing about something that's a "who cares?" Do you
want to use a speaker to heat your house? Or keep your coffee warm? Or
do you want to know when the glue holding the voice coil together will
melt?

Sorry for misunderstanding the question. Probably you (Phil) are the
only one to take an irrelevant question, answer it literally, and argue
with all who tried to get to what the original question really was about.

Good for you. This newsgroup was pretty loggy until this discussion came
along. Thanks for your help.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[[email protected]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

wrote:

** The topic is measuring*power dissipation* so resistance is everything.


Oh, so we've been arguing about something that's a "who cares?" Do you
want to use a speaker to heat your house? Or keep your coffee warm? Or
do you want to know when the glue holding the voice coil together will
melt?


** A simple way to measuring heat dissipation in a loudspeaker seems like a worthwhile task, for one thing it would allow precise power limiting in high powered applications.


Sorry for misunderstanding the question. Probably you (Phil) are the
only one to take an irrelevant question, answer it literally, and argue
with all who tried to get to what the original question really was about.



** One again, it would behove Mr Rivers to actually read a ****ing thread, once in a while, before mindlessly slandering the folk involved.

FYI:

While discussing the meaning of the term "applied watt" - Don Pearce claimed it was impossible to measure the power dissipated in a speaker driven with a random noise test signal. I pointed out it was actually quite easy and explained how using either of two simple means.

OTOH Mr Rivers self serving opinion on the original question was so far out of touch with reality is might as well have come from the man in the moon..

Do have a nice day.


...... Phil

[gray_wolf]

On 4/27/2019 6:41 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 4/27/2019 2:31 AM, wrote:

** The topic is measuring*power dissipation*Â* so resistance is everything.

Oh, so we've been arguing about something that's a "who cares?" Do you want to
use a speaker to heat your house? Or keep your coffee warm? Or do you want to
know when the glue holding the voice coil together will melt?

Sorry for misunderstanding the question. Probably you (Phil) are the only one to
take an irrelevant question, answer it literally, and argue with all who tried
to get to what the original question really was about.

Good for you. This newsgroup was pretty loggy until this discussion came along.
Thanks for your help.


Dang, is this kman's replacement ;-