[John Doe[_2_]]

FWIW... Before upgrading my main monitor last week, I tried the
built-in speakers and did not notice the noise. But difficult to
hear anything on those built-in monitor speakers.

The HDMI audio extractor (Tripp Lite P130-000-AUD4K6) should tell
that one. If there is still noise, through the 3.5 mm stereo output
jack, I will assume the SPDIF on the extractor link would not work
either, that the noise is introduced before that point.

I will lose the SoundBlaster equalizer software, using HDMI audio,
but I suppose there is a replacement.






I wrote:

INFORMATION:

The JBL LSR305s make great PC speakers, zero noise, except when
playing a flight simulator (X-Plane).

Tried two different video cards, PNY GTX980 and MSI GTX960.
Tried built-in audio and Creative Rx soundcard
Tried a different speaker cable.

The noise corresponds to what is displayed on the screen. It
changes when a menu choice is selected. Sounds like an oscillator.

Neither of my monitors have an HDMI audio output jack.

QUESTIONS:

Should I try an HDMI pass-through with audio extractor?

The soundcard has SPDIF output. But I am having trouble finding an
inexpensive SPDIF input preamp for the powered speakers.

Thanks.

[Phil W]

"John Doe" :

FWIW... Before upgrading my main monitor last week, I tried the
built-in speakers and did not notice the noise. But difficult to
hear anything on those built-in monitor speakers.

The HDMI audio extractor (Tripp Lite P130-000-AUD4K6) should tell
that one. If there is still noise, through the 3.5 mm stereo output
jack, I will assume the SPDIF on the extractor link would not work
either, that the noise is introduced before that point.

Good luck, that it helps.

I will lose the SoundBlaster equalizer software, using HDMI audio,
but I suppose there is a replacement.

IF you´re using Windows, you might want to check out:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
in conjunction with
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pea...apo-extension/

as a "system-wide" EQ - can be activated and DEactivated easily.


Phil

[John Doe[_2_]]

"Phil W" wrote:

"John Doe" :

I will lose the SoundBlaster equalizer software, using HDMI
audio, but I suppose there is a replacement.

IF you´re using Windows, you might want to check out:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
in conjunction with
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pea...apo-extension/

as a "system-wide" EQ - can be activated and DEactivated easily.

Thanks. This is preliminary, but... I especially needed the "Pre
Amplifying" function. Was not getting enough volume out of my
system.

[John Doe[_2_]]

John Doe wrote:

"Phil W" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote:

I will lose the SoundBlaster equalizer software, using HDMI
audio, but I suppose there is a replacement.

IF you´re using Windows, you might want to check out:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
in conjunction with
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pea...apo-extension/

as a "system-wide" EQ - can be activated and DEactivated easily.

Thanks. This is preliminary, but... I especially needed the "Pre
Amplifying" function. Was not getting enough volume out of my
system.

Been using it ever since.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 21-03-2018 00:59, John Doe wrote:

fixed microserf email topposting, this is usenet...

I wrote:

INFORMATION:

The JBL LSR305s make great PC speakers, zero noise, except when
playing a flight simulator (X-Plane).

Tried two different video cards, PNY GTX980 and MSI GTX960.
Tried built-in audio and Creative Rx soundcard
Tried a different speaker cable.

The noise corresponds to what is displayed on the screen. It
changes when a menu choice is selected. Sounds like an oscillator.

You may need one or both of: a bigger psu in the pc and a set of inline
insulation transformers that keep pc's ground and audio playback systems
grounds separate.


Neither of my monitors have an HDMI audio output jack.

QUESTIONS:

Should I try an HDMI pass-through with audio extractor?

No, I don't think it is gonna save your day, I think, but I do not know
this, that the supply voltage(s) in the pc are modulated because of the
videocards current requirements.

Kind regards

Peter larsen

[John Doe[_2_]]

Don't take this personally, but...

Have you ever measured how much power your system uses?

Many years ago I bought a $20 wattage meter to find out. Surprise!
Nowadays I always have one connected to my PC. A good use for it
after measuring appliances around the house.

My systems have been in the 100-300 W range, including everything in
the box (minus the monitor). That includes inefficiency/overhead of
the power supply itself.

My current system...
ATX motherboard
Intel i7-6700k
GeForce GTX980

Idle power is usually about 65 W. While in my flight simulator
(X-Plane 11), power is always less than 300 W.

The big power supply thing sounds like a penis size contest. It is
the kind of thing you would sell to non-scientists who need "RGB"
display in and on all their computer stuff. Heaven forbid we have
a trade war with China and can't get RGB headphones.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 21-03-2018 11:31, John Doe wrote:

Don't take this personally, but...

Have you ever measured how much power your system uses?

Yes. When I edit video on a double xeon box I double the household power
use.

Many years ago I bought a $20 wattage meter to find out. Surprise!
Nowadays I always have one connected to my PC. A good use for it
after measuring appliances around the house.

My systems have been in the 100-300 W range, including everything in
the box (minus the monitor). That includes inefficiency/overhead of
the power supply itself.

My current system...
ATX motherboard
Intel i7-6700k
GeForce GTX980

Idle power is usually about 65 W. While in my flight simulator
(X-Plane 11), power is always less than 300 W.

The big power supply thing sounds like a penis size contest. It is
the kind of thing you would sell to non-scientists who need "RGB"
display in and on all their computer stuff. Heaven forbid we have
a trade war with China and can't get RGB headphones.

Remember the context, the OP is experiencing interference.

If you still have the box to that video card then check the suggested pc
power supply dimensioning. My videocards generally request 600 watts psu
in the pc or greater. And it is about voltage sag and -when it comes to
interference negation - psu output impedance on a single rail worst
case, not about what it can deliver on all rails combined.

My first thought was that his psu is marginal for the tasks since it is
when the graphics card is busy he has the issue. This here box has video
interference when there is too much disk activity, much the same issue.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[John Doe[_2_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:

You may need one or both of: a bigger psu in the pc and a
set of inline insulation transformers that keep pc's ground
and audio playback systems grounds separate.

Of course trying a bigger power supply is easy. Or maybe an
external soundcard, assuming the noise does not come through
the USB.

No, I don't think [an HDMI pass-through with audio
extractor] is gonna save your day,

It did not. The same noise is present with the HDMI audio
extractor.

I think, but I do not know this, that the supply voltage(s)
in the pc are modulated because of the videocards current
requirements.

I need to look around and see whether this is a common
problem. It should be, considering my circumstance.

Maybe most people don't notice because they use cheap
speakers. Seems strange. Otherwise, a bigger power supply
should fix it. Gamers love big power supplies. I can use a
spare power supply anyway.

Thanks.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 3/24/2018 12:09 PM, John Doe wrote:
No, I don't think [an HDMI pass-through with audio
extractor] is gonna save your day,
It did not. The same noise is present with the HDMI audio
extractor.

I didn't think so, because you still have a direct ground connection
between your computer and your speakers. Try the ground isolator that
recommended.

But . . . are you sure that the noise you're not hearing isn't a
constant background sound that's created by the flight simulator
program? Does it go away when you close the program? I don't remember if
you've mentioned this.




--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[John Doe[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

John Doe wrote:

No, I don't think [an HDMI pass-through with audio
extractor] is gonna save your day,

It did not. The same noise is present with the HDMI audio
extractor.

I didn't think so, because you still have a direct ground
connection between your computer and your speakers. Try the
ground isolator that recommended.

But . . . are you sure that the noise you're not hearing
isn't a constant background sound that's created by the
flight simulator program? Does it go away when you close
the program? I don't remember if you've mentioned this.

Difficult to remember something you haven't read. Seems you
ignored everything in my original post, in your first reply.

I could understand if you were replying to the subject line,
sometimes I do that. But even the subject line answers your
current question.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 3/24/2018 1:16 PM, John Doe wrote:

Difficult to remember something you haven't read. Seems you
ignored everything in my original post, in your first reply.

I could understand if you were replying to the subject line,
sometimes I do that. But even the subject line answers your
current question

OK, ignore my advice if you choose. I was only trying to help based on
"digital noise," which isn't very specific. Breaking a ground connection
cures a lot of ills.

The noise corresponds to what is displayed on the screen. It
changes when a menu choice is selected. Sounds like an oscillator.

Is it a whistle? Does it have a pitch? What kind of oscillator? Sine
wave? Sawtooth? When you wrote "noise" I assumed noise. Sorry for trying
to first-guess you.

Could you make a video with audio and post it somewhere so I/we can hear
what you're hearing?



--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

John Doe wrote:

The HDMI audio extractor (Tripp Lite P130-000-AUD4K6) should tell
that one. If there is still noise, through the 3.5 mm stereo output
jack, I will assume the SPDIF on the extractor link would not work
either, that the noise is introduced before that point.

This is likely a D/A converter in a box and as such may affect your
sound. However, it might be better than whatever D/A you're using
currently.

I will lose the SoundBlaster equalizer software, using HDMI audio,
but I suppose there is a replacement.

God, I hope so. Get all that awful crap out of your signal path, and
keep it as far away as possible.

If I were you, I'd just look into fixing the ground loop. Are you running
an XLR cable out of your soundcard into the powered speaker, or are you
trying to pull out of an unbalanced output? If it is the unbalanced output,
try lifting pin 1 on the XLR side and adding 0.1uF ceramic caps between
pin 1 and 3 and pin 2 and 3 on the XLR connector. This lifts the ground at
the speaker side and filters some RF off... it's not as nice as a real
transformer but it's often a workable solution if you can't get a proper
balanced output.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Doe[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

John Doe wrote:

The HDMI audio extractor (Tripp Lite P130-000-AUD4K6) should tell
that one. If there is still noise, through the 3.5 mm stereo
output jack, I will assume the SPDIF on the extractor link would
not work either, that the noise is introduced before that point.

This is likely a D/A converter in a box and as such may affect
your sound. However, it might be better than whatever D/A you're
using currently.

If I were you, I'd just look into fixing the ground loop. Are you
running an XLR cable out of your soundcard into the powered
speaker,

There is an electrical difference between TRS cables and XLR cables,
going to the speakers from the same soundcard stereo output jack?









--

or are you trying to pull out of an unbalanced output?
If it is the unbalanced output, try lifting pin 1 on the XLR side
and adding 0.1uF ceramic caps between pin 1 and 3 and pin 2 and 3
on the XLR connector. This lifts the ground at the speaker side
and filters some RF off... it's not as nice as a real transformer
but it's often a workable solution if you can't get a proper
balanced output.

[John Doe[_2_]]

I meant "TS cables", just distinguishing between the connector types.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 3/25/2018 3:47 PM, John Doe wrote:
There is an electrical difference between TRS [you mean TS] cables and XLR cables,
going to the speakers from the same soundcard stereo output jack?

Yes. TS cables have one conductor and a shield, TRS and XLR (and
TRS-to-XLR) cables have two conductors and a shield. There's a detailed
article on my web page about the differences and why they matter:

https://mikeriversaudio.files.wordpr..._revised. pdf

The short version is that TRS and XLR cables are used when making
"balanced" connections. TS (or RCA, for that matter) cables are used
when making "unbalanced" connections. The difference is that for a
balanced connection, the cable shield, which is conventionally connected
to the chassis ground, doesn't carry the signal voltage, and in an
unbalanced connection, it does. If there's noise present on the ground
of one or both of the devices that you're connecting, the noise gets
added to the signal when you have an unbalanced connection. With a
balanced connection, _unless there's a wiring problem in the equipment_,
noise that's on the cable shield doesn't go anywhere important.

And before you ask, in order to make a balanced connection, the devices
on both ends of the cable must have connectors that carry two signal
wires and the shield. You can't make an unbalanced output balanced just
by sticking a TRS plug in a TS jack.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[John Doe[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

John Doe wrote:

There is an electrical difference between TRS [you mean TS]
cables and XLR cables, going to the speakers from the same
soundcard stereo output jack?

Yes. TS cables have one conductor and a shield, TRS and XLR (and
TRS-to-XLR) cables have two conductors and a shield. There's a
detailed article on my web page about the differences and why they
matter:

https://mikeriversaudio.files.wordpr...he_ins_and_out
s_of_gozintas_and_gozoutas_revised.pdf

The short version is that TRS and XLR cables are used when making
"balanced" connections. TS (or RCA, for that matter) cables are
used when making "unbalanced" connections. The difference is that
for a balanced connection, the cable shield, which is
conventionally connected to the chassis ground, doesn't carry the
signal voltage, and in an unbalanced connection, it does. If
there's noise present on the ground of one or both of the devices
that you're connecting, the noise gets added to the signal when
you have an unbalanced connection. With a balanced connection,
_unless there's a wiring problem in the equipment_, noise that's
on the cable shield doesn't go anywhere important.

And before you ask, in order to make a balanced connection, the
devices on both ends of the cable must have connectors that carry
two signal wires and the shield. You can't make an unbalanced
output balanced just by sticking a TRS plug in a TS jack.

Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
"unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

In other words... An ordinary stereo output from a PC soundcard can
be balanced by simply using XLR cables?

I like balanced.

A new power supply arrives today or tomorrow. Will see whether it
helps. The idea that increased power draw might cause the problem is
logical.

[Scott Dorsey]

John Doe wrote:

Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
"unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

No. However, if you have a _differential input_ that is intended for a
balanced source, you can use the differential input to break the signal
ground connection effectively and eliminate the ground loop.

In other words... An ordinary stereo output from a PC soundcard can
be balanced by simply using XLR cables?

No, because the output is still not balanced. However, you CAN still
use the differential input to break the ground connection.

There is a discussion of this stuff on the Rane website, also a very
good one in the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook.

I like balanced.

It's nice, in part because you can break grounds with impunity then.

A new power supply arrives today or tomorrow. Will see whether it
helps. The idea that increased power draw might cause the problem is
logical.

It's likely to reduce some of the noise, but just fix the damn ground loop.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Doe[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
"unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

No. However, if you have a _differential input_ that is intended
for a balanced source, you can use the differential input to break
the signal ground connection effectively and eliminate the ground
loop.

That's next.

In other words... An ordinary stereo output from a PC soundcard
can be balanced by simply using XLR cables?

No, because the output is still not balanced. However, you CAN
still use the differential input to break the ground connection.

There is a discussion of this stuff on the Rane website, also a
very good one in the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook.

I like balanced.

It's nice, in part because you can break grounds with impunity
then.

A new power supply arrives today or tomorrow. Will see whether it
helps. The idea that increased power draw might cause the problem
is logical.

It's likely to reduce some of the noise, but just fix the damn
ground loop.

I would have immediately fixed the thing (using capacitors on the
input as described by Mike) if it made sense to do that. It makes no
sense to me until I figure out what the problem is and why it is not
commonly discussed on the Internet. There are hundreds of millions
of gamers. They do not fix ground loops with transformers or
capacitors.

Is it something wrong with the JBL LSR305 speakers? Like the inputs
not being compatible enough with the unbalanced output from the
soundcard? Not that I have to know.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 3/25/2018 6:04 PM, John Doe wrote:
Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
"unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

No. I tried to tell you that in a shortened form. Read the article.

In other words... An ordinary stereo output from a PC soundcard can
be balanced by simply using XLR cables?

No.

I like balanced.

So do I. But you can't make an unbalanced output balanced just by using
a different cable. You can make a balanced output unbalanced by using a
different cable, but not the other way around.



--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[John Doe[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Are you saying that the difference between a "balanced" and an
"unbalanced" connection can be made simply by the cable used?

No. I tried to tell you that in a shortened form.

Why? You know I have a soundcard. There is no point in talking
"balanced this unbalanced that" when you know perfectly well
balanced is not available. Or at least you would if you bothered to
read the posts you reply to.