[Paul[_13_]]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...ser-microphone


Dual diaphragm on this one....

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Paul wrote:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...ser-microphone

Dual diaphragm on this one....

You DO need to have something reasonably violin-proof, nothing cheap with a
large membrane is likely to so be and I am not positively certain that
something expensive with a large membrane will be, but have an open mind.
AKG CK1 capsules are if suitably equalized around 16 kHz and come with the
451 model. CK22 capsules (omni) are also quite useful as are DPA 4006's, but
beware that you need to learn to deploy a stereo pair of omnis correctly to
benefit from it.

The most interesting of the new brands is in my opinion sE. But you DO need
to know what good is before you pick and choose in the compromise range,
also of ADK btw. You also need to appreciate that when you get good
microphones the compromise range stuff ends up unused in your mic cupboard
and the money spent on it was less wisely spent in terms of cost of
ownership over (for you) useful lifetime of product.

Go rent a pair of 4006's, to mic stands that will go 8 feet up so that it is
ultra easy to adjust distance between the parallel capsules in the 1 to 2
foot range and a good mic pre a weekend and record something plucked, bowed
and hamnered in a real room, it can't be all that costly and it will allow
you to experience using transducers that have performance parameters in the
amplifier circuitry range rather than in the transducer range. With that
experience you will be better dressed to choose between the compromises.

That said, your first pair of condenser mics should be small membrane
cardioids for optimum usefulness. KM184's should be on your wish list along
with multiple other suggestestions from just about the entire newsgroup.

There is a home recording newsgroup, you may find it interesting, also
perhaps still an alt.4-track or something.

The recurrring theme in all follow ups here is and remains: learn what good
is so that you can make good choices between the stuff is that is less good.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
handcrafted ascii by Peter Larsen

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:

snip

There is a home recording newsgroup, you may find it interesting, also
perhaps still an alt.4-track or something.



There is one, but it goes unused.

snip

--
Les Cargill

[PStamler]

For a decent small-diaphragm condenser mic, it's still hard to beat an Oktava MC012, sourced from someplace that does quality control like www.oktava.com . The most neutral-sounding capsule is the hypercardioid. Most useful is the three-capsule kit, but if you can only afford one, get the hyper. It's a real microphone.

Peace,
Paul (a different one)

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen wrote:

The most interesting of the new brands is in my opinion sE. But you DO need
to know what good is before you pick and choose in the compromise range,
also of ADK btw. You also need to appreciate that when you get good
microphones the compromise range stuff ends up unused in your mic cupboard
and the money spent on it was less wisely spent in terms of cost of
ownership over (for you) useful lifetime of product.

SE is kind of an interesting outfit. Mr. Zhou definitely talks about wanting
to make a better product, and he wants to spend money on better instrumentation
and all that. But then he goes around and sells something like the Gemini,
which shows no signs of actual acoustical engineering anywhere in it, and
which appears to be an intellectual exercise in seeing how many tubes you can
put into one microphone.

It's interesting that if you look at the old-line microphone companies, their
cheaper microphones are generally adaptations of the technology developed on
their high-end products. If you look at most of the Chinese folks, their
high-end microphones are adaptations of the technology developed on their
cheap products.

Go rent a pair of 4006's, to mic stands that will go 8 feet up so that it is
ultra easy to adjust distance between the parallel capsules in the 1 to 2
foot range and a good mic pre a weekend and record something plucked, bowed
and hamnered in a real room, it can't be all that costly and it will allow
you to experience using transducers that have performance parameters in the
amplifier circuitry range rather than in the transducer range. With that
experience you will be better dressed to choose between the compromises.

Agreed, completely. The problem with the 4006, though, is that the pattern
is so wide and so even and so clean that it will show up room problems like
you wouldn't believe. Or maybe this is the advantage.

That said, your first pair of condenser mics should be small membrane
cardioids for optimum usefulness. KM184's should be on your wish list along
with multiple other suggestestions from just about the entire newsgroup.

I would tend to agree.

The Behringer B-2, incidentally, is another Chinese clone of the U87 design.
It's made by the 797 factory in Beijing, which you can tell because the
backplate is grooved instead of drilled. Most of the Chinese clones come
from the Shanghai area, from factories that learned from the Feilo factory.
As soon as any one factory starts making a design variant, all the others
learn about it quickly enough because people and ideas circulate between
factories in the Shanghai electronics community.

There is a home recording newsgroup, you may find it interesting, also
perhaps still an alt.4-track or something.

It's kind of dead, I am sorry to report. Not that r.a.p is all that alive.

The recurrring theme in all follow ups here is and remains: learn what good
is so that you can make good choices between the stuff is that is less good.

Bingo.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

PStamler wrote:
For a decent small-diaphragm condenser mic, it's still hard to beat an Okta=
va MC012, sourced from someplace that does quality control like www.oktava.=
com . The most neutral-sounding capsule is the hypercardioid. Most useful i=
s the three-capsule kit, but if you can only afford one, get the hyper. It'=
s a real microphone.

The good news is that the Oktava factory is now doing their own quality
control, now that they are freed from their former distributor.

This means that you can buy two off the line and expect them to match and
to be good, and on top of that all of the standard modifications which were
published a decade or so ago are incorporated into the production mikes.

The bad part of all this consistency and improvement is that the price is
now three or four times what it was a decade ago. It's no longer a cheap
mike, although it's still more than worth what they're charging for it.

There are still a lot of older ones out there with electronics problems
due to trying to make too many too fast, as well as a raft of bad Chinese
clones that were made and sold by their former distributor after they fell
out with the Russian factory. So I would be very, very wary of buying used
Oktavas.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Behringer B-2, incidentally, is another Chinese clone of the U87
design.
It's made by the 797 factory in Beijing, which you can tell because the
backplate is grooved instead of drilled.

More clearly even, it's marked "797" on the pc board.

http://www.797audio.com/templates/co...aspx?nodeid=11
4&page=ContentPage&categoryid=0&contentid=407


So this doesn't come from the much-touted "Behringer City" facility ?!!

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:
"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Behringer B-2, incidentally, is another Chinese clone of the U87
design.
It's made by the 797 factory in Beijing, which you can tell because the
backplate is grooved instead of drilled.

More clearly even, it's marked "797" on the pc board.

http://www.797audio.com/templates/co...aspx?nodeid=11
4&page=ContentPage&categoryid=0&contentid=407

So this doesn't come from the much-touted "Behringer City" facility ?!!

No, but a lot of the smaller Behringer products are rebadges (and you can
tell because they are usually available under other names as well).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
geoff wrote:
"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Behringer B-2, incidentally, is another Chinese clone of the U87
design.
It's made by the 797 factory in Beijing, which you can tell because the
backplate is grooved instead of drilled.

More clearly even, it's marked "797" on the pc board.

http://www.797audio.com/templates/co...aspx?nodeid=11
4&page=ContentPage&categoryid=0&contentid=407

So this doesn't come from the much-touted "Behringer City" facility ?!!

No, but a lot of the smaller Behringer products are rebadges (and you can
tell because they are usually available under other names as well).
--scott


And are the "real" Behringer products generally better quality, or same ?

My DEQ2496 seems fine. Well, since I replaced the 'bypass' relay...

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

No, but a lot of the smaller Behringer products are rebadges (and you can
tell because they are usually available under other names as well).

And are the "real" Behringer products generally better quality, or same ?

I don't know. Much of what they do in-house are things like guitars and
speaker cabinets, but they do board manufacture as well.

Generally the electronics are typical consumer quality: connectors and
switches mounted on PC boards and dropped into boxes. Consumer-grade
capacitors and resistors, but overall design that avoids the need for
precision components.

I have never used any of the instruments or speakers, other than one monitor
speaker that was again typical consumer manufacturing (which is more of an
issue for transducers than electronics).

My DEQ2496 seems fine. Well, since I replaced the 'bypass' relay...

That's exactly the sort of thing that you'd expect them to do well, although
I'd worry about how roadable it is.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Here In Oregon]

"geoff" wrote in message

My DEQ2496 seems fine. Well, since I replaced the 'bypass' relay...

Never expected mine to last as long as it has and it is really nice to know
Geoff who can fix them when they break.

Probably much cheaper to just buy another but hey I can now solder. Ugghhh!

[Here In Oregon]

"Here In Oregon" wrote in message ...

"geoff" wrote in message

My DEQ2496 seems fine. Well, since I replaced the 'bypass' relay...

Never expected mine to last as long as it has and it is really nice to know
Geoff who can fix them when they break.

Probably much cheaper to just buy another but hey I can now solder. Ugghhh!


Never expected mine to last as long as it has and it is really nice to
know
Geoff who can fix them when they break.



g I left off my grin.

[geoff]

"Here In Oregon" wrote in message
...


"Here In Oregon" wrote in message ...

"geoff" wrote in message

My DEQ2496 seems fine. Well, since I replaced the 'bypass' relay...

Never expected mine to last as long as it has and it is really nice to
know
Geoff who can fix them when they break.

Probably much cheaper to just buy another but hey I can now solder.
Ugghhh!


Never expected mine to last as long as it has and it is really nice to
know
Geoff who can fix them when they break.



g I left off my grin.

Reffering to the true bypass relays, a batch of which seemed to have a
propensity to become a little intermittant in the contact department. Easy
fix, once you learn to de/solder ;-)

geoff