[mcp6453[_2_]]

Sometime last week, I did an A-B comparison between an RE-20 and a Heil PR-40.
For my voice, which is not much of a test, unfortunately, the Heil PR-40 won
without question. By chance, I read a post somewhere that said that using an
RE-20 on kick really does a number on the RE-20, and its sound for voice is
permanently altered.

While I don't know the intimated details of the innards of the RE-20, I can
certainly understand the physics of a kick. It is not implausible that a kick
would stress the diaphragm on the RE-20 at least to the point of changing its
character.

My RE-20 was used on kick a few times. It would be hard to say whether it was
used enough to damage it, although the right thump could do it in, if it is true
that a kick can alter an RE-20.

Fact or fiction? My go-to vocal mic is now the PR-40, although I'm told that the
PR-40 is almost identical except for the very low end. The PR-40 is very
colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

[Steve King]

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
| Sometime last week, I did an A-B comparison between an RE-20 and a Heil
PR-40.
| For my voice, which is not much of a test, unfortunately, the Heil PR-40
won
| without question. By chance, I read a post somewhere that said that using
an
| RE-20 on kick really does a number on the RE-20, and its sound for voice
is
| permanently altered.
|
| While I don't know the intimated details of the innards of the RE-20, I
can
| certainly understand the physics of a kick. It is not implausible that a
kick
| would stress the diaphragm on the RE-20 at least to the point of changing
its
| character.
|
| My RE-20 was used on kick a few times. It would be hard to say whether it
was
| used enough to damage it, although the right thump could do it in, if it
is true
| that a kick can alter an RE-20.
|
| Fact or fiction? My go-to vocal mic is now the PR-40, although I'm told
that the
| PR-40 is almost identical except for the very low end. The PR-40 is very
| colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

The RE-20 is not very colored. That's why it seems to work well for such a
variety of voices plus many other applications. Your RE-20 could be just
fine.

Steve King

[Scott Dorsey]

mcp6453 wrote:
While I don't know the intimated details of the innards of the RE-20, I can
certainly understand the physics of a kick. It is not implausible that a kick
would stress the diaphragm on the RE-20 at least to the point of changing its
character.

My RE-20 was used on kick a few times. It would be hard to say whether it was
used enough to damage it, although the right thump could do it in, if it is true
that a kick can alter an RE-20.

I've never had that happen. I have a bunch of RE-20s, some used on kick
a whole lot, some not, and they all sound the same. Often I work with
rental kit, and I have never had a problem with any rented RE-20 sounding
wrong on vocals. So I am inclined to think it's not a worry.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Beyer TG-88, which definitely
is affected by being used on the kick drum.

Fact or fiction? My go-to vocal mic is now the PR-40, although I'm told that the
PR-40 is almost identical except for the very low end. The PR-40 is very
colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

The lack of the variable-D thing will mean the PR-40 will be very different
when you're moving from the near-field to the far-field. Which might not be
a problem for you at all, though it can be an issue for some announcers and
most horn players.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[vdubreeze]

When I worked at a studio that had an RE20 in it's closet I used it
for kick drums and voice sometimes, and treated it with all the
delicateness I afforded the banged up 57's. Never noticed anything
changed. Doubt it had been already damaged since I thought it sounded
pretty good when it was doing its thing, but you never know. But I
always assumed it was a pretty hardy chunk of metal and innards.

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 2/12/2011 1:07 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I've never had that happen. I have a bunch of RE-20s, some used on kick
a whole lot, some not, and they all sound the same. Often I work with
rental kit, and I have never had a problem with any rented RE-20 sounding
wrong on vocals. So I am inclined to think it's not a worry.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Beyer TG-88, which definitely
is affected by being used on the kick drum.

Fact or fiction? My go-to vocal mic is now the PR-40, although I'm told that the
PR-40 is almost identical except for the very low end. The PR-40 is very
colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

The lack of the variable-D thing will mean the PR-40 will be very different
when you're moving from the near-field to the far-field. Which might not be
a problem for you at all, though it can be an issue for some announcers and
most horn players.

Ok, that's good to know. I agree that the RE-20 is not very colored. My voice
may not be much to write home about, but I do know how to work a mic for voice.
Then again, I like the MKH-416 for voice.

[Sean Conolly]

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
Sometime last week, I did an A-B comparison between an RE-20 and a Heil
PR-40.
For my voice, which is not much of a test, unfortunately, the Heil PR-40
won
without question. By chance, I read a post somewhere that said that using
an
RE-20 on kick really does a number on the RE-20, and its sound for voice
is
permanently altered.

While I don't know the intimated details of the innards of the RE-20, I
can
certainly understand the physics of a kick. It is not implausible that a
kick
would stress the diaphragm on the RE-20 at least to the point of changing
its
character.

My RE-20 was used on kick a few times. It would be hard to say whether it
was
used enough to damage it, although the right thump could do it in, if it
is true
that a kick can alter an RE-20.

Fact or fiction? My go-to vocal mic is now the PR-40, although I'm told
that the
PR-40 is almost identical except for the very low end. The PR-40 is very
colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

The only time I'm concerned about a mic surviving a kick drum is if it's
placed directly in the hole on the front head. If it's even a few inches in
or out of the drum it's fine, but when it's directly in the hole it gets hit
with the maximum air blast, and that can cause damage with a hard hitter.

The that surprise me is how many people insist on this position when it
really doesn't sound good very good at that spot. You get a single huge
half-wave at 30~35 Hz that has to be compressed and filtered to work with.
The only time it works is with an SM-58, and well - who cares if it gets
damaged.

Sean

[geoff]

mcp6453 wrote:
The PR-40 is very colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

I guess that's OK if it's only your voice you are using it on. Expect
variable results with other voices...

geoff

[david correia]

In article ,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

mcp6453 wrote:
While I don't know the intimated details of the innards of the RE-20, I can
certainly understand the physics of a kick. It is not implausible that a
kick
would stress the diaphragm on the RE-20 at least to the point of changing
its
character.

My RE-20 was used on kick a few times. It would be hard to say whether it
was
used enough to damage it, although the right thump could do it in, if it is
true
that a kick can alter an RE-20.

I've never had that happen. I have a bunch of RE-20s, some used on kick
a whole lot, some not, and they all sound the same. Often I work with
rental kit, and I have never had a problem with any rented RE-20 sounding
wrong on vocals. So I am inclined to think it's not a worry.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Beyer TG-88, which definitely
is affected by being used on the kick drum.



What have you had happen with a M88 TG?

(My fave kick drum mic is the older M88.)




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 2/12/2011 7:00 PM, geoff wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
The PR-40 is very colored, but the coloration helps my voice.

I guess that's OK if it's only your voice you are using it on. Expect
variable results with other voices...

Absolutely. For example, my MKH416 sounded marvelous on a friend's very deep
voice. It sound like fingernails on a chalkboard on a female singer's voice.
Even someone as tone deaf as Taylor Swift could have heard the difference on
that one.

[Scott Dorsey]

david correia wrote:

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Beyer TG-88, which definitely
is affected by being used on the kick drum.

What have you had happen with a M88 TG?

Something happens to the midrange; it's not a good thing at all. It's
still good as a kick mike after that, but it's not so good on vocals.

(My fave kick drum mic is the older M88.)

The original didn't do that. I'm not sure what is happening structurally
and I'm not sure how the original and the TG version differ inside either.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

david correia wrote:

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Beyer TG-88, which
definitely is affected by being used on the kick drum.

What have you had happen with a M88 TG?

Something happens to the midrange; it's not a good thing at all. It's
still good as a kick mike after that, but it's not so good on vocals.

(My fave kick drum mic is the older M88.)

The original didn't do that. I'm not sure what is happening
structurally and I'm not sure how the original and the TG version
differ inside either.

Beyer's website says: "Das Mikrofon eignet sich zudem besonders zur Abnahme
der Bass Drum (Hierzu
bitte unbedingt Poppschutz PS 88 oder Windschutz WS 59 verwenden!)" - ie.
the use windscreen when used for kickdrum is REQUIRED, ie. they appear to
agree.

--scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Steve King]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
| mcp6453 wrote:
| The PR-40 is very colored, but the coloration helps my voice.
|
| I guess that's OK if it's only your voice you are using it on. Expect
| variable results with other voices...
|
| geoff

That many mics have coloration is why we often spend so much time choosing a
mic that is pleasing on a particular voice whether signing or speech. The
416 and Shure SM7 with mid-range emphasis switched in work great on my
voice. I had a woman narrator in the other day and my $39 (when I bought a
pair) MXL SE-1 was a clear winner. The SE-1 is a relateively uncolored mic,
but it sounded great for her.

Steve King

[Steve King]

"Steve King" wrote in message
...
| "geoff" wrote in message
| ...
|| mcp6453 wrote:
|| The PR-40 is very colored, but the coloration helps my voice.
||
|| I guess that's OK if it's only your voice you are using it on. Expect
|| variable results with other voices...
||
|| geoff
|
| That many mics have coloration is why we often spend so much time choosing
a
| mic that is pleasing on a particular voice whether signing or speech. The
| 416 and Shure SM7 with mid-range emphasis switched in work great on my
| voice. I had a woman narrator in the other day and my $39 (when I bought
a
| pair) MXL SE-1 was a clear winner. The SE-1 is a relateively uncolored
mic,
| but it sounded great for her.
|
| Steve King
|
The above should read, "....whether (singing) or speech. I admit that I
wouldn't know where to start to select a microphone for signing;-)

Steve King

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Steve King wrote:

The above should read, "....whether (singing) or speech. I admit
that I wouldn't know where to start to select a microphone for
signing;-)

A pencil type might do well.

Steve King

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[vdubreeze]

On Feb 13, 2:13*pm, "Steve King"
wrote:

|
The above should read, "....whether (singing) or speech. *I admit that I
wouldn't know where to start to select a microphone for signing;-)

Steve King

If anyone second guessed my choice of mic for the hand signer in front
of the stage I wouldn't even know WHAT to say : )

[Ty Ford]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:02:20 -0500, mcp6453 wrote
(in article ) :

unfortunately, the Heil PR-40 won without question.

So 1000 radio stations are wrong?

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
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