[Rick Ruskin]

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav for a client.
I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than Audition's default 32 bit
floating point because some programs can't deal with floating point..
1 set of files crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's going on and
how to remedy it without having to re-transfer from analog?


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Arny Krueger]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session, and add the files you
have already transferred into it. You lose your edits, but you don't have
to re-transfer from analog.

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:52:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session, and add the files you
have already transferred into it. You lose your edits, but you don't have
to re-transfer from analog.


How will importing the same odd files into a new session change their
behavior when I try to re-save them as 24 bit files?
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Arny Krueger]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:52:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session,
and add the files you have already transferred into it.
You lose your edits, but you don't have to re-transfer
from analog.


How will importing the same odd files into a new session
change their behavior when I try to re-save them as 24
bit files?

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "crashes the program when I
attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit". I guess I still don't.

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:18:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:52:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session,
and add the files you have already transferred into it.
You lose your edits, but you don't have to re-transfer
from analog.


How will importing the same odd files into a new session
change their behavior when I try to re-save them as 24
bit files?

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "crashes the program when I
attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit". I guess I still don't.


I have no problem opening or playing any individual file from this
session in Audition. I need to make sure all files are compatible
with other programs that can open wavs. Because some programs don't
like 32 bit floating point files, I've saved everything as 24 bit.
Audition has a utility in edit view that will analyze whatever file is
being viewed and give the actual bit rate. The files in question
crash the program when I ask for this analysis. I want to know what
could be causing this. Only the files from 1 session are causing the
problem. Understand now?
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[WallysWorld]

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:30:11 -0700, Rick Ruskin wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:18:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:52:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session,
and add the files you have already transferred into it.
You lose your edits, but you don't have to re-transfer
from analog.


How will importing the same odd files into a new session
change their behavior when I try to re-save them as 24
bit files?

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "crashes the program when I
attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit". I guess I still don't.


I have no problem opening or playing any individual file from this
session in Audition. I need to make sure all files are compatible
with other programs that can open wavs. Because some programs don't
like 32 bit floating point files, I've saved everything as 24 bit.
Audition has a utility in edit view that will analyze whatever file is
being viewed and give the actual bit rate. The files in question
crash the program when I ask for this analysis. I want to know what
could be causing this. Only the files from 1 session are causing the
problem. Understand now?
Rick Ruskin

Why not try Ardour under Linux?
It will do what you are looking for and a whole lot more and the best
part is that it is free.

http://www.64studio.com/

Audition 1.5 is old news.
It is buggy and unstable compared to the CoolEdit program that
pre-dated it.

Try Linux.
The source code will set you free.

Linux is the future.

--
HPT

George Hostler

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 22:12:37 -0400, WallysWorld
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:30:11 -0700, Rick Ruskin wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:18:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
news On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:52:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I presume that you are working in multitrack mode.

If that's the case, just create a new 32 bit session,
and add the files you have already transferred into it.
You lose your edits, but you don't have to re-transfer
from analog.


How will importing the same odd files into a new session
change their behavior when I try to re-save them as 24
bit files?

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by "crashes the program when I
attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit". I guess I still don't.


I have no problem opening or playing any individual file from this
session in Audition. I need to make sure all files are compatible
with other programs that can open wavs. Because some programs don't
like 32 bit floating point files, I've saved everything as 24 bit.
Audition has a utility in edit view that will analyze whatever file is
being viewed and give the actual bit rate. The files in question
crash the program when I ask for this analysis. I want to know what
could be causing this. Only the files from 1 session are causing the
problem. Understand now?
Rick Ruskin

Why not try Ardour under Linux?
It will do what you are looking for and a whole lot more and the best
part is that it is free.

http://www.64studio.com/

Audition 1.5 is old news.
It is buggy and unstable compared to the CoolEdit program that
pre-dated it.

Try Linux.
The source code will set you free.

Linux is the future.


GO **** YOURSELF!


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[PStamler]

On Jun 7, 9:26*pm, Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 22:12:37 -0400, WallysWorld
wrote:
Try Linux.
The source code will set you free.

Linux is the future.

GO **** YOURSELF!

And while he's doing that...if you want to know what the bit-format of
a file is in Audition, go to the Editing screen rather than the
multitrack, and hit Ctrl-O to open files. As you highlight each file,
its format will be described. Scroll down and you'll see the formats
of all the files in that folder. No need to open them at all.

Or is that what you're doing, and is that what's crashing?

Peace,
Paul

[JT[_3_]]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
news
GO **** YOURSELF!

Don't let 'em get to you Rick - after all, he's probably tried that too but
found it physically impossible...

[Mike Rivers]

WallysWorld wrote:

Why not try Ardour under Linux?

Here's a better idea - try a $160 Zoom H2 recorder. Someone
else has already installed and configured the software, the
converters are decent, and it just works. Maybe it's even
Linux-based. I don't know. Why don't you reverse engineer
one and check it out? That's probably a simple thing for
anyone who regularly uses Linux. You pretty much have to do
that any time you install new software.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Preben Friis]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
...
1 set of files crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's going on and
how to remedy it without having to re-transfer from analog?

Breaking it down, it can be either: Audition has messed up when saving them
or Audition messes up when opening them. What happens if you play them in
another program?

Are they stereo files? Maybe Audition saved them with an odd number of
samples and hence crashes when it tries to play the last (non-existing)
sample.`

If you convert the files from 32-24 again does the crashes still happen?

If you right-click the files in Explorer and choose "Properties - Details"
it will show the bitrate in Vista or Windows 7.

/Preben Friis

[Rick Ruskin]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:53:06 +0200, "Preben Friis"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
.. .
1 set of files crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's going on and
how to remedy it without having to re-transfer from analog?

Breaking it down, it can be either: Audition has messed up when saving them
or Audition messes up when opening them. What happens if you play them in
another program?

Are they stereo files? Maybe Audition saved them with an odd number of
samples and hence crashes when it tries to play the last (non-existing)
sample.`

If you convert the files from 32-24 again does the crashes still happen?

Yes.

If you right-click the files in Explorer and choose "Properties - Details"
it will show the bitrate in Vista or Windows 7.

XP does this as well on all files but these. Gonna chalk it up to the
"Bone God" and re-record them.




Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Rick Ruskin wrote:

I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav for a client.
I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than Audition's default 32 bit
floating point because some programs can't deal with floating point..

Is is a real problem or an imaginary fear?

At what stage in the process? - I would make the conversion as a batchjob as
the very large stage.

1 set of files crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit.

Extra data-chunks? - disable those then.

Any ideas as to what's going on and
how to remedy it without having to re-transfer from analog?

A good first guess is that you save 3+ gigabytes 24 bit files .... remember
that all 24 bit files get expanded to 32 bit format on opening, a large
waste of time.

Putting the mouse on the file in the edit view open window tells you all you
need to know.

Rick Ruskin

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Preben Friis]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
.... remember that all 24 bit files get expanded to 32 bit format on
opening, a large waste of time.

This is what every modern DAW does. By your logic all 16 bit audio should be
saved as 32 floating point as well?

Saving 24 bit of information in 32 bits is a 33% waste of hard disk and
bandwidth.

/Preben Friis

[Rick Ruskin]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:31:13 +0200, "Preben Friis"
wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
. dk...
.... remember that all 24 bit files get expanded to 32 bit format on
opening, a large waste of time.


I'm aiming for compatibility with programs, and cpus that don't read
floating point.

This is what every modern DAW does. By your logic all 16 bit audio should be
saved as 32 floating point as well?

I certainly don't do that and never would unless specifically asked to
do so by a client.

Saving 24 bit of information in 32 bits is a 33% waste of hard disk and
bandwidth.

Audition's record resolution options are 8 bit, 16 bit, and 32 bit
float. There is no 24 bit option on the way into the program. You
must tell it to save in straight 24 bit resolution, otherwise it saves
everyhing above 16 bits as 32 bit float.



Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Preben Friis wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...

.... remember that all 24 bit files get expanded to 32 bit format on
opening, a large waste of time.

This is what every modern DAW does. By your logic all 16 bit audio
should be saved as 32 floating point as well?

Nah, but one has to be aware of the expansion when opening a 3+ gigabyte 24
bit file, I don't think A3 cares, but A1.5 sure does and it this is about
A1.5 disliking some files.

Saving 24 bit of information in 32 bits is a 33% waste of hard disk
and bandwidth.

Agreed, but reading 32 bit data is faster and that is what matters when you
work with stuff, work-storage and long term storage are different
considerations.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

/Preben Friis

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Rick Ruskin wrote:

Audition's record resolution options are 8 bit, 16 bit, and 32 bit
float. There is no 24 bit option on the way into the program. You
must tell it to save in straight 24 bit resolution, otherwise it saves
everyhing above 16 bits as 32 bit float.

You didn't say how large the 24 bit audio files you encounter problems with
are ...?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Rick Ruskin]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:22:38 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:

Rick Ruskin wrote:

Audition's record resolution options are 8 bit, 16 bit, and 32 bit
float. There is no 24 bit option on the way into the program. You
must tell it to save in straight 24 bit resolution, otherwise it saves
everyhing above 16 bits as 32 bit float.

You didn't say how large the 24 bit audio files you encounter problems with
are ...?


Not all that large. 3.5 minutes or so mono files. It's moot now, I
re-transferred the files in question.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Preben Friis]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
Saving 24 bit of information in 32 bits is a 33% waste of hard disk
and bandwidth.

Agreed, but reading 32 bit data is faster and that is what matters when
you work with stuff, work-storage and long term storage are different
considerations.

Reading 32 bit might actually be slower than reading 24 bit and converting
to 32 because first the data has to get from the hard disk and to the RAM,
from RAM to L2 cache, from L2 cache to L1 cache before it hits the CPU. The
savings gained in decreased memory bus bandwidth might actually greater than
the added CPU usage.

I our program (Hindenburg Journalist) the data is actually converted to 64
bit before mixing, so even 32 bits will require conversion. Then again, we
do play "directly from disk" instead of reading in the whole file into
memory (Which I presume that Audition 1.5 does according to what you wrote).

/Preben Friis

[Arny Krueger]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message


I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I am unfamiliar with what you mean by "verify they are actually 24 rather
than 32 bit".

How are you doing that?

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:59:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message


I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I am unfamiliar with what you mean by "verify they are actually 24 rather
than 32 bit".

How are you doing that?




I answered this once before. Audition has a utility in edit view that
will analyze whatever file is being viewed and give the actual bit
rate.

1. In edit view, click on Analyze
2. Choose "Statistics" option from the Analyse menu.
3. The last item on the left ahnd column is "bit depth."


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Arny Krueger]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:59:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message


I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I am unfamiliar with what you mean by "verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit".

How are you doing that?




I answered this once before. Audition has a utility in
edit view that will analyze whatever file is being viewed
and give the actual bit rate.

1. In edit view, click on Analyze
2. Choose "Statistics" option from the Analyse menu.
3. The last item on the left ahnd column is "bit depth."


Try this:

Open the file.
In edit view, click on file, save as
In the file save dialog box, click on Options.
There will be a window titled "format 32 bit data as". The text in this
window will state the actual file format and allow you to verify that they
are actually 24 bit rather than 32 bit.

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:32:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:59:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message


I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to wav
for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit rather than
Audition's default 32 bit floating point because some
programs can't deal with floating point.. 1 set of files
crashes the program when I attempt to verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit. Any ideas as to what's
going on and how to remedy it without having to
re-transfer from analog?

I am unfamiliar with what you mean by "verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit".

How are you doing that?




I answered this once before. Audition has a utility in
edit view that will analyze whatever file is being viewed
and give the actual bit rate.

1. In edit view, click on Analyze
2. Choose "Statistics" option from the Analyse menu.
3. The last item on the left ahnd column is "bit depth."


Try this:

Open the file.
In edit view, click on file, save as
In the file save dialog box, click on Options.
There will be a window titled "format 32 bit data as". The text in this
window will state the actual file format and allow you to verify that they
are actually 24 bit rather than 32 bit.



I did that. I save everything that is going to be dealt with at
another studio as 24 bit unless told to do otherwise. With the one
group of files at issue, Audition did not behave properly and screwed
the files up. How many times do I have to keep going over the same
ground? At this point, I don't care anymore because I've
re-transferred the material.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Arny Krueger]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:32:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:59:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message


I'm transferring some old 1/2" 16 track material to
wav for a client. I'm saving all files as 24 bit
rather than Audition's default 32 bit floating point
because some programs can't deal with floating
point.. 1 set of files crashes the program when I
attempt to verify they are actually 24 rather than 32
bit. Any ideas as to what's going on and how to
remedy it without having to re-transfer from analog?

I am unfamiliar with what you mean by "verify they are
actually 24 rather than 32 bit".

How are you doing that?




I answered this once before. Audition has a utility in
edit view that will analyze whatever file is being
viewed and give the actual bit rate.

1. In edit view, click on Analyze
2. Choose "Statistics" option from the Analyse menu.
3. The last item on the left ahnd column is "bit
depth."


Try this:

Open the file.
In edit view, click on file, save as
In the file save dialog box, click on Options.
There will be a window titled "format 32 bit data as".
The text in this window will state the actual file
format and allow you to verify that they are actually 24
bit rather than 32 bit.

I did that.

Well, there's your answer. Why continue to struggle?

With the one group of files at issue,
Audition did not behave properly and screwed the files
up.

If you question the integrity of your Audition installation, uninstall it
and reinstall it.

How many times do I have to keep going over the same
ground?

Good question. You're the guy trapped in the loop. You kept doing the same
thing over and over again, expecting a different result. When a fairly
well-debugged program like Audition locks up accessing file data, it usually
means that data files are truely corrupted in unusual ways.

At this point, I don't care anymore because
I've re-transferred the material.

Unless you've diagnosed some problem with your system and corrected it, the
same thing is likely to happen again.

At this point many possibilities seem open. There could be a hardware
problem with your hard drive, and it works up from there.

Semi-relevant anecdote. My primary A/V production computer has 4 hard drives
ranging from 250 GB to 1 TB each. The machine started locking up randomly -
once a week, then once a day, then it would only stay up for a few hours. I
eventually isolated the problem to the 500 GB boot drive. It took a fair
amount of time and effort to recover the disk and transfer the data, but
once the failing drive was replaced with aa new 1 TB drive, all was well.

My point is that the failures that I now see on hard drives are different
from past experience. Instead of data corruption that we saw in the past, I
now see more systems either totally locking up or blocks of data just going
missing.