[Kajetan Sikorski]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a pair of monitors. I'm not involved in production, I
just listen and I think that pro equipment is a good deal. I like very
detailed and possibly less warm sound. In my current setup I have (well
soon will some stuff is still in the mail) Mac Book - Benchmark DAC1
- Mackie hr824s.

My room is pretty small 15x12 ft and the ceiling is 8ft. I might move
into a smaller room (12 x 9 x8) later this year. I'm working on
acoustically treating it (I dont really know what I'm doing but I'm
trying some DIY bass traps and such). Anyway I was thinking about
upgrading the Mackies, my budget is around 4k for a pair of active
monitors. I listen to mostly acoustic/classical stuff. I would like to
narrow the list down to around 3 or 4 things that I can audition. I
think my Mackies are a bit too forward and I don't think the
imaging/seperation is as good as it could be (maybe this is a room
issue, but I am addressing that).

Thanks a lot,
Kai

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 04:33:00 -0600, Kajetan Sikorski
wrote:


My room is pretty small 15x12 ft and the ceiling is 8ft. I might move
into a smaller room (12 x 9 x8) later this year. I'm working on
acoustically treating it (I dont really know what I'm doing but I'm
trying some DIY bass traps and such). Anyway I was thinking about
upgrading the Mackies, my budget is around 4k for a pair of active
monitors. I listen to mostly acoustic/classical stuff. I would like to
narrow the list down to around 3 or 4 things that I can audition. I
think my Mackies are a bit too forward and I don't think the
imaging/seperation is as good as it could be (maybe this is a room
issue, but I am addressing that).


The Mackies are generally noted for a large stereo "sweet spot".

I'd get into the new room and sort it out acoustically before spending
more money on speakers.

[Scott Smith]

"Kajetan Sikorski" wrote in message
news:2006103004330016807-b17m4p@maccom...
Hi guys,

I'm looking for a pair of monitors. I'm not involved in production, I just
listen and I think that pro equipment is a good deal. I like very detailed
and possibly less warm sound. In my current setup I have (well soon will
some stuff is still in the mail) Mac Book - Benchmark DAC1 - Mackie
hr824s.

My room is pretty small 15x12 ft and the ceiling is 8ft. I might move into
a smaller room (12 x 9 x8) later this year. I'm working on acoustically
treating it (I dont really know what I'm doing but I'm trying some DIY
bass traps and such). Anyway I was thinking about upgrading the Mackies,
my budget is around 4k for a pair of active monitors. I listen to mostly
acoustic/classical stuff. I would like to narrow the list down to around 3
or 4 things that I can audition. I think my Mackies are a bit too forward
and I don't think the imaging/seperation is as good as it could be (maybe
this is a room issue, but I am addressing that).

Thanks a lot,
Kai

I actually feel the HR's have really good separation myself. If your room
isn't treated, how can you be sure you're hearing an accurate representation
of the sound to begin with? Ensure that you're positioning the HR's (and
yourself) correctly as well.

[Skler]

I actually feel the HR's have really good separation myself. If your room
isn't treated, how can you be sure you're hearing an accurate
representation
of the sound to begin with?

With near field monitors, set up a listening position so that you minimize
early reflections (off of consoles or furniture) and so that later
reflections from walls and so on are well below the level of the direct
sound. Relative positioning in the room of both speakers and listening
position is critical for adjusting low end response, especially without the
use of bass traps. So for most of the spectrum, just being close enough to
the monitors relative to the walls is very useful approach in a small room
and then to reiterate, listener orientation and speaker positioning relative
to the room surfaces is of great importance for low end. If you want to go
beyond this basic approach, simple Live End Dead End treatment can help,
that is, absorptive treatment in the front third and wide band diffusion in
the back two thirds. This approach works quite well for very small rooms.
For a moderate level of detail regarding the concepts needed for optimizing
control room acoustics, check out Alton Everest's handbook on acoustics; it
has the basics of how to apply the concepts of Reflection Free Zones, Live
End Dead End, bass traps, diffusion and also has some basic practical
information regarding psychoacoustics.

Schuy

[Scott Smith]

"Skler" wrote in message
...


I actually feel the HR's have really good separation myself. If your room
isn't treated, how can you be sure you're hearing an accurate
representation
of the sound to begin with?

With near field monitors, set up a listening position so that you minimize
early reflections (off of consoles or furniture) and so that later
reflections from walls and so on are well below the level of the direct
sound.

That's the idea behind nearfields, although in my experience I can and do
hear a noticeable difference (in small rooms with proper monitor & listening
positioning) between those rooms with and without the employment of acoustic
treatment.

Relative positioning in the room of both speakers and listening
position is critical for adjusting low end response, especially without
the
use of bass traps. So for most of the spectrum, just being close enough to
the monitors relative to the walls is very useful approach in a small room
and then to reiterate, listener orientation and speaker positioning
relative
to the room surfaces is of great importance for low end. If you want to
go
beyond this basic approach, simple Live End Dead End treatment can help,
that is, absorptive treatment in the front third and wide band diffusion
in
the back two thirds. This approach works quite well for very small rooms.
For a moderate level of detail regarding the concepts needed for
optimizing
control room acoustics, check out Alton Everest's handbook on acoustics;
it
has the basics of how to apply the concepts of Reflection Free Zones, Live
End Dead End, bass traps, diffusion and also has some basic practical
information regarding psychoacoustics.

I've been perusing Everest's book for some time and will second that
recommendation. I'd also recommend Ethan Winer's site, which has a lot of
very useful (and free) information as well:
http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

[Tim Sprout]

Scott Smith wrote:

I actually feel the HR's have really good separation myself. If your
room
isn't treated, how can you be sure you're hearing an accurate
representation
of the sound to begin with?

Skler wrote:

With near field monitors, set up a listening position so that you minimize
early reflections (off of consoles or furniture) and so that later
reflections from walls and so on are well below the level of the direct
sound. Relative positioning in the room of both speakers and listening
position is critical for adjusting low end response, especially without
the
use of bass traps. So for most of the spectrum, just being close enough to
the monitors relative to the walls is very useful approach in a small room
and then to reiterate, listener orientation and speaker positioning
relative
to the room surfaces is of great importance for low end. If you want to
go
beyond this basic approach, simple Live End Dead End treatment can help,
that is, absorptive treatment in the front third and wide band diffusion
in
the back two thirds. This approach works quite well for very small rooms.
For a moderate level of detail regarding the concepts needed for
optimizing
control room acoustics, check out Alton Everest's handbook on acoustics;
it
has the basics of how to apply the concepts of Reflection Free Zones, Live
End Dead End, bass traps, diffusion and also has some basic practical
information regarding psychoacoustics.

Schuy




For small rooms, diffusion may be less important. See:

Technical Bulletin on the Application of Diffusion in Critical Listening
Rooms

by Peter D'Antonio and Trevor Cox
RPG Diffusor Systems, Inc Upper Marlboro, MD© January 2003

"It is suggested that a listener should be at least three wavelengths away
from
scattering surfaces. Since diffusors used in listening room applications
have a
lower frequency limit of roughly 300-500 Hz, this would mean a work-ing
distance
of 10’ (3 m) or larger is recommended."

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/e...ning_Rooms.pdf

-Tim Sprout